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Discussion Starter #1
I've looked through over 300+ threads, but have been unable to find exactly what I need to know. I'm starting this new thread to see if I can get the info I need to do it right. I've met some great people here that have helped with anothe issue I was working on, and hopefully will be successful in the conclusion of that matter.

Earlier last week, I began securing the parts I need to convert my 1967 Mustang coupe form regular taillights to the taillights used in the 1968 GT/CS and Shelby GT500/GT500KR. My research from this forum has led me to understand that those taillights were initially from a 1964 Thunderbird. Since I've been able to secure a beautiful set of housings, pigtails, lenses and the chrome trim, it's obvious I'm committed to the change. My reason for selecting this version is because I'm partial to their styling and functionality.

My dilemma is, that I don't have the wiring harness to integrate them into my vehicle. The questions I have are many and I will list them here now:

1) Is the correct harness to use for this conversion the complete taillight wiring harness from a 1964 Thunderbird or a 1965 Thunderbird?
2) Besides the wiring harness that attaches to the pigtails, are there any other parts that are paramount to this working flawlessly? If so, what are they and is there an exact part list/compatibility-interchangeability that crosses over to other brands in the Ford corporation.
3) If there are other parts, what are they specifically and are there any wiring diagrams available to show the correct way to connect everything?
4) Once all the correct parts are secured, what is the exact mounting locations needed for it to function without problems, are there brackets needed for this?
5) If the 1964/1965 Thunderbird harness and attachments are the correct parts, are they completely compatible with the plugs from the Mustang harness?
6) Are there any parts that must be changed under the dash to allow for full functionality and delayed sequential action while using the turn signals?
7) I am retrofitting and completing the install of a functional Courtesy Convenience Panel system, and wonder are there any alterations I must make to the original harness so all of this is able to work in tandem without issues.
8) The car will have other unusual options added to make it the version I would have bought in 1967. Such as 6,000 rpm tachometer w/ tripometer, instrument cluster analog clock, the tilt-away steering column,the rear window defroster, rear speakers (stock type), a factory available reverberation component added to the correct AM/8-track radio and finally a complete Deluxe Interior with lower and upper consoles to complement the already gorgeous interior it has. My hope, is that it will be as beautiful to view as it is to create. Does anyone see issues with all of this together?
9) If there are additional things I should address, please feel free to enlighten me. I want to do this right and learn so I may help others in the future.
10) Because of the addition of all these options, should I consider upgrading the charging system to a larger capacity battery and stronger alternator/regulator? What about increasing the rating of the appropriate fuses? Can the stock fuse box/ harness handle the increased load?

It is obviously an area of contention for some that are purists, but this car has no special classifications or original options. It is my wish to make my Darling into the Belle of the Ball for me to enjoy and pass on in my family. All help would be appreciated and to those who have already put me on the correct path, I thank you. I look forward to any assistance and look forward to working with all the great people here on this board. Once I've got everything I need, a restoration/resto-mod thread of my project will be created. I'm excited and nervous regarding the scope of the endeavor, but to forge forward is my goal. All pictures will happen as I get going with this. Have a great day.
 

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I'm almost certain you would need the full wiring harness. You could possibly use the one from a '67-'68 Cougar...these are a somewhat complex series of wires and a small motor relay that was prone to bad contacts and needing periodic cleaning.

I may still have a full sequential harness from a '67/'68Cougar, If I can find it, you would be welcome to it...but I have to warn that it has been 25 or 30 years since i looked for it, and I have a TON of parts boxes, in (3) locations....might be difficult to find... :)
Tom
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
You are right

Ca. Special rear lights were 65 T bird, not 64. Unless you are going with the Ca Special decklid and matching 1/4 panel extensions, that conversion on a 67-8 looks somewhat out of place, owing to the bottom edge of the original decklid. Go to Mustangproject.com, there is a 68 cvt converted to those lights, with the original decklid.
Thank you for reminding me of the need to procure the trunk lid and fender extensions, they're on the list now. Although I know my Mustang is a 1967, I want to use the look of the 1968 Shelby/ California Special since it looks better to me. My research has led me to many sources and forums that have specified that on 1967 Shelby's they used the 1967 Cougar lights and the 1964/1965 Thunderbird lights were used for 1968 Shelby/GT CA applications. Is there a void in the research I've done? I want to be fully knowledgeable on this to make all my efforts fall into place.

I'm not too keen on the Mustangproject.com route, I prefer the incandescent lighting and period correct method for what I am doing. In the long run, I realize it may be more expensive than what you suggest, but this is the road I've determined to follow. Now should I run into a roadblock that is insurmountable, then what you have suggested will be my alternative. Thank you so much, though, for giving me a direction of alternative conclusions.

Since this endeavor is in the planning/procuring stage, there may be some alterations of roads taken. I was always told to plan first, secure supplies, then begin the work at hand, but always be ready to adapt to changes that WILL happen.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
That's good news

I'm almost certain you would need the full wiring harness. You could possibly use the one from a '67-'68 Cougar...these are a somewhat complex series of wires and a small motor relay that was prone to bad contacts and needing periodic cleaning.

I may still have a full sequential harness from a '67/'68Cougar, If I can find it, you would be welcome to it...but I have to warn that it has been 25 or 30 years since i looked for it, and I have a TON of parts boxes, in (3) locations....might be difficult to find... :)
Tom
That sounds great! If I were local to you, I'd help you and as a bonus, I'd organize all of it for you without an argument. Heck, maybe mow the lawn for you afterwards. And that's AFTER I've snowplowed the area for safety first! Would the 1967/1968 Cougar harness work with the Thunderbird taillights/housing? I thought they were different? The Thunderbird's use three lights and the Cougar uses four, what about the sequential relays and stuff? I think the Thunderbirds had some type of motor that worked with a relay and the Cougar sequential relay was a one-piece unit. Are they cross compatible?
 

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That sounds great! If I were local to you, I'd help you and as a bonus, I'd organize all of it for you without an argument. Heck, maybe mow the lawn for you afterwards. And that's AFTER I've snowplowed the area for safety first! Would the 1967/1968 Cougar harness work with the Thunderbird taillights/housing? I thought they were different? The Thunderbird's use three lights and the Cougar uses four, what about the sequential relays and stuff? I think the Thunderbirds had some type of motor that worked with a relay and the Cougar sequential relay was a one-piece unit. Are they cross compatible?
The Cougar lights use (3) on the sequential and then a license light. So there are (4) but only (3) flash and brake.

The relay is a crude little spinning wheel with contacts on a motor, as the wheel spins the contacts are actuated...simple but prone to failure.
Tom
 

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Discussion Starter #8
One of the reasons I started this thread, is because I have looked on many sites (including this one) and haven't found a comprehensive compilation of facts and information regarding this subject matter. I hope this will be a good source of info for someone else looking to do the same thing. With that in mind, I have further questions I need to ask. Since I'm definitely using the Thunderbird taillight assemblies (because I already have them and I like the styling of the set), it is apparent I will need the taillight wiring harness that attaches to the main harness. With that in mind, will I need a sequential relay/motor for each side or is one enough? Which one is the correct one, the "dynamite sticks" with a "flash can" fuse relay or the sequential relay motor with additional items? I've found about six versions of items that are for the sequential turn signals found on Shelby's , GT/CS AND T-birds or Cougars. This creates a mind-numbing level of confusion for finding a solution. All answers are greatly appreciated and thanks to all for the help being given on all levels.
 

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I love the classic look in incandescant sequential lights. Thats why I went with the Scott Drake setup on my 65. Maybe you could use the electonic parts to drive your lights.

This is what I have.

http://www.drakeautomotivegroup.com/Store/Product/C5ZZ-STL-DLX.aspx?wid=141

The components are available separately. You could probably use the solid state boxes and variable rate flashers to run your 3 bulb assemblies.

http://www.drakeautomotivegroup.com/Store/Product/STL-13A366.aspx?wid=141

http://www.drakeautomotivegroup.com/Store/Product/STL-EVF-13350.aspx?wid=141
 

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I'm also adding C/S pieces to my '67 Convertible. I have T-Bird buckets and have the rear light panel & Decklid. I think I've decided to use this sequencing device with the factory incandescent bulbs:

(Click "Sequential Turn Signals" in the left column, then scroll to the second from bottom for their universal kit. $69.)

Sequential Turn Signals, One Touch Turn Signals, Challenger Sequential Taillights, Sequential Tail Lights, Mustang, Dynamite Stick Sequential, Pulsing Brake Light Pulser Flasher, One Touch Convertible Top, Dynamite Stick, One Touch Turn Signals, Dayt
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
This sounds like good info, please do this if you can. I've been going over the wiring diagrams for the 1965 T-bird, and there's two harnesses plus numerous relays, motors, indicators, etc. From what I saw at the link you provided, it's the same for the GT/CS The T-bird harnesses appear to be direct fit to Mustang main harness, but the turn signal flasher used by Mustangs are a flasher can and the T-bird uses a flasher relay. Am I heading in the right direction with my assumptions?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'm also adding C/S pieces to my '67 Convertible. I have T-Bird buckets and have the rear light panel & Decklid. I think I've decided to use this sequencing device with the factory incandescent bulbs:

(Click "Sequential Turn Signals" in the left column, then scroll to the second from bottom for their universal kit. $69.)

Sequential Turn Signals, One Touch Turn Signals, Challenger Sequential Taillights, Sequential Tail Lights, Mustang, Dynamite Stick Sequential, Pulsing Brake Light Pulser Flasher, One Touch Convertible Top, Dynamite Stick, One Touch Turn Signals, Dayt
Since I'm using the Thunderbird style taillights, I don't know if the "dynamite sticks" are the right piece to use. Should I start hitting the wall with the procurement aspect and failure of informational interpretation, your route or the MustangProject.com may be my only alternative. Thanks for the links and the heads up.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
You're RIGHT and I'm wrong.

Also remember, the GT/CS has a completely different (non sequential) tail light harness than the Shelby. Indigenous only to the CS. I can dig up the part # for you if you need it, but it sounds like you want a sequential setup. Check out CaliforniaSpecial.com - Limited edition 1968 GT/CS, 2007+ GT/CS & High Country Special Mustangs. All of the information you seek about lighting and harnesses for CS vs. Shelby is detailed in depth.
I PM'd you earlier and I made a mistake . I misread some of the info in the threads I have access to. I looked further and checked out the book the forum made about the GT/CS, and you were spot on :pirate: :beer: !!! !!! The taillights were NOT sequential functioned (what a waste):loco:, I bet that didn't look to good when compared to the Shelby taillights they were trying to imitate.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Decyphering the wiring diagram...

According to the 1967/1968 Mustang wiring diagram, the connections from the main harness (14401)to the rear taillight wiring harness (14405) consists of two connection plugs. On the main harness, the first is a three-pin rubber molded connector with two male pins and one female pin. The second is a plastic click-lock connector with what appears to be a three-pin (all male). These both connect to connectors that mirror them on the Mustang taillight harness. This is very different from the harness connectors used on the 1965 Thunderbird taillight harness for the sequential taillight system.

The wiring diagram for the 1965 Thunderbird harness has the main harness connecting to two connectors on the taillight harness. The taillight harness connectors are both eight pin, one has seven male pins and one female and the other with five male pins and three female. Both connectors appear to be rubber molded connectors.

I don't have a wiring diagram for the Mercury Cougar to compare the difference, so this is just one scenario I'm seeing. Does any one have any answers to this or solutions? I'm assuming that there has been people that have done this change using the older parts (not the LED solution offered by MustangProject.com). I've figured out the relays and sequential modulator needed, but have seen that there are at least four variations of these. I'm hoping SOMEONE can help for this.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Is This The end?????

I want to express my appreciation to all that attempted to assist in this fact-finding mission
. I have spent many hours going over an enormous amount of data and various wiring diagrams. There is only one conclusion that I can make. In order to get either the Cougar OR the T-Bird taillight systems to work, I will have to cannibalize various harnesses to make it work with a Mustang main harness. If there are other options, please enlighten me. The only other idea I can come up with is to locate a main harness and a taillight harness made specifically for the 1967/1968 Shelby Mustang. Either way, that increases the cost factor exponentially
.

If you have made offers of assistance or parts, I appreciate it AND still need them. I sincerely and most definitely am grateful for what you've offered to do
. I still will continue to obtain the necessary parts I need to continue, hoping that I will figure this out. I still want it to look and work like the way it would if it was done in 1967/1968. My hope is, that someone can offer me information that will shed further light on what I can do to make this look and act the way I want. If anyone has pictures of what all this looks like installed, I'd appreciate it if they'd post them or email me with them attached.

Should I fail, I always have the alternative suggested by many to use the "MustangProject" system. It's definitely a self-contained and perfected system. I just really don't want to go this route. I initially started this thread to get questions answered and to look for help figuring it out. I am beginning to understand what I'm about to undertake and frankly, I'm a bit daunted. No matter what happens, I will someday create a thread to show how I did it and the progress as it unfolds.
 

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Maybe try contacting some place like Glazier Nolan Mustang Barn and ask them what you need to have to make it work. I hope you can get the old school setup to work. It looks so much cooler than LED.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Maybe try contacting some place like Glazier Nolan Mustang Barn and ask them what you need to have to make it work. I hope you can get the old school setup to work. It looks so much cooler than LED.
Sounds like an idea, do you have any contact info available?
 

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Not sure of all the info you have found on this, but here are my thoughts.

The 1967 Shelby Mustang used the 67 Cougar Tail Lights WITHOUT Working Sequentials. The Tail Lights were there, but they just worked like Regular Signals.

The 1968 Shelby and GT/CS Mustangs gained the 65 Thunderbird Tail Lights, again WITHOUT Working Sequentials, however the Option became available in 68, utilizing what were called 'Dynamite Sticks' for the Sequential Action.

The 1967-1968 Cougar used a series of Relays and switches mounted in the Trunk and Under the Dash to power the system. There were also 2 different Main Trunk relays used between the years, and a few differences in the other relays and circuits, with Wiring to match the differences. Standard Cougar and XR7 used vastly different wiring harnesses.

That being said, to Convert a Mustang to the Cougar Set-Up requires a Complete Re-Wire of your Car, with Cougar Harnesses from the Dash Back. You also have to Mate your Mustang Under Hood Harness to the Different Cougar Dash Harness.
Make sure you source all your wiring from one car, or at least matching, Either a Standard or an XR7, you can not piece harnesses together between Standard and XR7.

I hope this helps a little
 
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