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Discussion Starter · #181 · (Edited)
Speaking of MSS and welding... I'm going to be using this on frame rails, etc. But I've been wondering if you can use it on the backside of where I'll be spot welding (i.e. bottom of the frame rail flange where I'd be spot welding the new trunk floor from the top). Or should one just leave the MSS back a couple of inches until welding is done and then coat backsides? Sorry for a possibly silly question. I'm new to all of this and just trying to learn and prep and plan ahead. Also Boss5Oh, what copper-infused weld-thru primer did you use and did you like it? TIA
In my case, no previous experience working with MSS, so I kept it at least 1/2" to 3/4" away from where I would be welding. In those areas surrounding the plug weld holes and on the flanges to be welded to the floor, I applied EuroSpray Weld Thru Primer Copper.
We only have one automotive paint store in Prescott, Wesco, and I used what they had. Not cheap, about $38 a 15.2 oz can. Another guy 7T02S here on VMF has been using Cobre WTP, but I could not even find a dealer for it. The EuroSpray product seemed to work OK, but nothing to compare it to. In the area where I did the plug welding, I got some spitting initially but that settled down as I worked around the plug weld hole. I even tried scratching though the WTP to see if the weld started up better, but no help and maybe not as good.
MSS suggests two coats which I did. It goes on pretty thick with a brush, so there could be a lot of material to burn off. I would be concerned about the fumes generated if you apply it near where you plan to weld. The material data sheets that come with the MSS warn about using a respirator when spraying the product so it has some harmful ingredients when airborne. When applying it with a brush, it has a very potent odor. I kept the garage open when applying it and boy did it stink up the place by morning.
I hope this helps, but difficult for a newbee to help another newbee.
 

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I put mss between my panels and just used an end mill in a drill bit to remove it from the hole where I was welding. I noticed it doesn't burn off much on the top panel around the welds.
 
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I just read through the entire thread and what a great build. Thank you for sharing and taking us along for the ride. I am very much looking forward to seeing the final product, please please keep posting updates.
 

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Discussion Starter · #184 ·
A few years back I built a Factory Five Cobra replica. Although I took an abundance of pictures, I never put together a build page for the Cobra. I sold the car in 2018 to fund my Mustang build and the new owner received all of my research and pictures taken throughout the build. I benefited greatly from the knowledge posted by other builders on the Factory Five Forums, one in particular was building virtually a carbon copy of my formula who was 9 months to a year ahead of me. That was where I learned how beneficial it is to share what we learn, which components we bought, and how we integrated all the pieces together. For my Mustang build, I decided early on to document my build here to share what I have gone through good and bad. I am the only build here using the Total Control Products front clip and suspension both front an rear that I am aware of. When done, I hope that what I have learned can be of use to others.
As those who have built, are building or are thinking about a Coyote based 1st gen Mustang restomod, I hope that what I have done will educate prospective builders on which manufacturers components will best meet their criteria.
 

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Discussion Starter · #185 · (Edited)
New effort, replacing the tail light panel.
Over time, I realized the car had a number of minor rear end collisions. The rear tail light panel had a number of dents and was wavy over its length. Although it was possible to repair it, lots of hours by a body man far more skilled than myself was needed. In addition, my car will be a Boss 302 tribute so the Mach 1 plastic panel will not be used. There are a number of mounting holes for the Mach 1 panel which would need filling. Since I can plug weld fairly well, I chose to replace rather than repair the tail light panel. The replacement panel is from CJPP, one of their classic panels said to be of increased thickness. I picked up the panel months ago prior to the virus, looks good.

Here is the state of the work so far. I have cleaned off the old paint to reveal the spots welds. I marked center, center punched them and then drill with a 1/16" bit to provide a locator for the plug weld cutter.








So looking for suggestions, tip and tricks as to how to best remove the old panel as well as installation of the new one.
Looks like I will need to remove the center tail light brace and possibly the bumper braces.
 

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You have to be pretty aggressive with a taillight panel; lots of spot welds all over the place. I don't think you'll need to remove the bumper braces. Rather, just be sure to cut all the spot welds attaching them to the taillight panel. I think you will need to remove the center brace. It's easier to install it once the new taillight panel is in place.

When you have the old taillight panel removed, I would suggest shooting some primer inside those bumper braces from the rear. Take advantage of that access while you have it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #187 ·
A bit more progress yesterday and this morning. Just about all of the spot welds on the outside at cut out. Only a few that refuse to release remain. Although not as bad a job as fully replacing the cowl, still not fun. BTW, I decided on buying a spot weld cutter and replacement cutters from McMaster Carr. Although more expensive than HF, they cut better and last longer too. The mandrel with cutter is about $20, but replacement cutters are about $5 each.

Looking closely at the way the tail light panel is formed, the bumper braces will need to come out. The TLP wraps around the end of the bumper braces. In order to install the new panel without damaging it, it needs to slip in from the top at the corners between the end cap and the rear trunk support. You just cannot do this with the bumper brackets in place. So another step is required, however maybe not a bad thing. Ford used what seems like half a tube of seam sealer all around the bumper bracket and the seam between the rear trunk support and the tail light panel. As I cut and scraped the seamer sealer away, our friend the rust monster was present. Fortunately the damage is not much more than surface rust, but if not addressed, we know it would get worse. Removing the bumper brackets and the tail light panel will allow me to get in, clean up, treat, and paint these areas before new seam sealer is applied. If a rust story can be a good one, this is.

The bumper support brackets are stitch welded to the floor, so hopefully easier to cut loose than all those spot welds.


 

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Discussion Starter · #188 ·
Removed the bumper support bracket on the passenger side. The bracket itself is in good condition, after cleanup should be as good as new. As suspected, the area under the bracket has significant surface rust, but it will clean up. Only one spot weld on each side to the tail light panel fortunately.
These areas will be cleaned and painted with Master Series Silver prior to reassembly. I will then add plenty of seam sealer to help prevent water from getting under and between surfaces.





On to the DS bumper support bracket and the center tail light panel support brace.
 

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Discussion Starter · #189 ·
Both bumper support brackets are out. The center tail light panel brace has had its spot welds cut out. Just need to remove the latch and key HW and the center support should be prepped to come out.

For those who want to know, about 80 spot welds total so far. Then you have the stitch weld in five places for each bumper bracket support. To remove the bumper bracket support brackets, I ground the stitch welds flush with the floor. I then had to use a Dremel with the reinforced cutting disks for metal. I was able to undercut the bracket a bit where the weld had penetrated underneath.

Four spot welds attach the upper portion of the center support bracket to the tail light panel

Note the tabs of the center support bracket sandwiched between the rear trunk brace and the tail light panel. I am hoping that the center support bracket will release from both panels.

Center support brace


Everything is cut free, I think. Once the center support brace is out, I will find out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #190 ·
Like the guys in Texas say, oh hell yeah! Finally, I have the tail light panel out in one piece with an exception. In order to free the center tail light panel brace, I had to cut a relief in the TLP where the lower mounting tabs of the center tail light brace is sandwiched between the rear trunk brace and the tail light panel. Ford spot welded all three layers together at that point making individual separation difficult.
Once I freed the center tail light panel brace and a couple of pesky spot welds, the panel was loose. A couple of hits from a mallet upward at each lower corner and it was out.





The backend of the car sure looks wide without the tail light panel. I need to clean up the spot weld buttons left to get the seam flat again. A little hammer and dolly work will be necessary to, but not bad.

Will the tail light panel out, I will take advantage of the access to clean up the trunk area and the rear fender wells. Note all along the seam between the rear trunk brace and the tail light panel rust had formed between the layers. This is very similar to what I found when I removed the inner fender extensions and between the cowl layers. These seams must draw in moisture causing the rust. Again, fortunately, in my case the corrosion is only surface rust and will clean up. I will use a weld through primer between layers to resist the problem from starting up again.

I am glad the removal of the tail light panel is behind me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #191 ·
Proposed PCM placement. I had made a post to the mod and custom forum asking about where others had placed their Coyote PCMs. The replies received were for 65-66 and 67-68 models, not directly applicable, but provided ideas. On one of the other Mustang forums, I saw the PCM on a 69 placed in the front of the PS wheel well. I have looked at that solution and it has a lot of advantages.

1. It is in the area where the stock Mustang places their PCM, so the engine harness has plenty of length to reach it.
2. It is out of sight and I am trying to route as much of the hoses and wiring outside of the engine compartment.
3. I allows me to run the controls pack harness to the firewall in the wheel well with the exception two branches for the starter, cooling fan, alternator and MAF.




765737

So far this placement seems to make the most sense in the 69/70 models.

Now I need to find a large rectangular wiring grommet for the hole in the inner fender apron.
I also will need to make a mounting bracket as this area of the inner fender apron is not flat, but neither is the PCM when flipped over like this.

Anyway, I think I have a plan now.
 

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Looking great Alan! Always appreciate the thought that you put into your solutions to these challenges. Well done!
 

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Discussion Starter · #193 ·
Looking great Alan! Always appreciate the thought that you put into your solutions to these challenges. Well done!
Thanks Sven, I appreciate your input. Since I am doing most of the build myself, no hurry. Taking time to look at different solutions usually results in picking a good one, rather not have to redo something. For those that decide to do a Coyote swap down the road, it is my hope that my reasoning for doing what I have done will help them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #194 ·
After a bit of searching, I have found a firewall grommet that I can use to pass the Coyote Engine Harness through the PS front inner fender apron. The engine harness connector requires a 3 1/2" hole minimum to pass the connector through. I verified this with a cardboard template to be sure.

On the Summit Racing website, I found products by Seals-it where they make a split grommet.Outside OD is 4 1/2" for the full grommet. I am guessing at 1/4" around the perimeter so diameter of rubber portion about 4". ID for cable pass through is 1 1/4". The hole for the diameter is likely 4 inches which will allow the connector to pass through easily. The ID for the cable pass through at 1 1/4" matches that of the Coyote engine harness, perfect. At $30 for the part, not cheap, but it will make for a clean pass through that is also removable should the need arise.


 

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Can you unpin the connector, pass the wires through a smaller hole then repin?
 

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Discussion Starter · #196 ·
Can you unpin the connector, pass the wires through a smaller hole then repin?
Of course you can, but what a PITA. Not a solution that I would want to do as it would also require doing the same or remove the harness from the engine in order to pull the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #197 · (Edited)
More PCM mockup today. I made a Visio outline drawing to scale incorporating the PCM and Seals-it firewall grommet.

I think I have the general location pretty close, not much room left over but it fits.
The front inner fender apron apron is not flat, it has a "V" shaped portion that intrudes into the fender well.
I figured I need to space out the PCM from the inner fender apron about 2 inches as it is not flat and I need room for the V portion.




You can see how the harness connector mounts to the PCM at a 90 degree angle. By spacing out the PCM, only the round portion of the harness will pass through the grommet. At the top, there is a 1/2 inch portion where Ford added a reinforcement 90 piece that would not fit in the 1 1/4" hole for the harness. Spacing out the PCM also allows air to get to the backside (normally top).
The wood standoffs I made contour to the inner fender apron well, so I think this will work once the standoff are transferred to metal.
I think it is time to order the Seals-it firewall grommet and work on making the mount standoffs in metal. I will add a 1/8 inch piece of sheet rubber between the inner fender apron and the metal standoff when done for vibration isolation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #198 ·
I pulled out the controls pack harness from the box and started looking at how it will fit into the PCM placement. Fortunately, the control pack harness exits straight out from the PCM, perfect for routing the harness in the fender well and over to the firewall. There are a couple of branches that will need to enter the engine compartment to connect with the starter, MAF, and alternator, no big deal they will get their own holes in the inner fender apron. The delima at this point is where to mount the power distribution fuse and relay box. It would be easier to mount it in the fender well next to the firewall, but this location would expose the power distribution box to water and road debris. The location would also make serviceability a issue. These issues make mounting the power distribution box in the fender well undesirable. The alternative I am looking at is mounting the power distribution box in the upper right corner of the passenger footwell. There is enough room between the Vintage Air evaporator unit and the side wall to mount the power distribution box. This location would keep it clean and accessible. It would also require that I bring the high current 12V cable into the interior. I guess so long as the cable is properly insulated, not a big issue.
The problem placing the power distribution box in the PS footwell is that I will have to cut and splice the main harness to achieve this. The harness is too long anyway and I would most likely want to tailor the length to the final location anyway. The question now is do I just cut and splice it or should I go to the next level and add connectors? I know what I should do, add the connectors, but more work to do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #199 · (Edited)
I heard back from Ford Performance today, they provided detailed wire harness information for the controls pack (body) harness provided with the controls pack. The file has very detailed wire list and connectors information for the entire harness. I contacted Ford Performance last week asking about information on the harness by submitting a email to [email protected]. Steve Horn responded and provided both the harness information file and details for adding the wiring for the 6R80 AT sport shift function. I am using the Lokar Sport Shifter for the 6R80 which allows me to place the trans in sport mode and manually up and down shift. Essentially, the paddle shifter function is moved to the Lokar shifter assembly.

If anyone wants a copy of the 2nd Gen Coyote Controls Pack harness info, PM me and I can send the files in a email as they are too large to post here.

In reviewing the controls pack installation instructions and a note from Ford Performance a couple of changes to the harness are necessary.
1. The single electric fan control output is good to 30A, beyond that an external relay is recommended. My C&R radiator has dual Spal fans each rated to 37A. So, per the FP recommendation, I will add two 70A relays to drive the two fans triggered by the single fan control output.
2. I plan to add 3 wires for the sport shift function. While I am in modifying the harness, this is the time to do it.
3. I will add an inertia switch in the fuel pump wiring as a safety feature. I plan to use the Ford inertia switch as used in the 2004 Mustang. I have used this switch before in my Factory Five. RockAuto has a 2nd source equivalent for 1/2 the cost of the Motorcraft part. Summit Racing has a pigtail connector for the switch to make wiring easier.
4. I will be using two Deutsch HDP20 series connectors to divide the harness into two sections, one from the PCM to firewall and the second from the firewall into the interior. I believe two connectors are necessary as the wire gauge ranges from 10 to 20 for the harness.
5. The power distribution box containing relays and fuses for the controls pack will be moved inside the interior. The box will be mounted in the upper right corner of the passenger side footwell. There is just enough room there next to the evaporator. the cover will be accessible so relays and fuses can be serviced if necessary.

Lots of research and planning, now to work on my version of the wire list where the connectors will be inserted. I will provide more detail as I tackle modifying the harness. I think I have a complete plan now, but time will tell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #200 · (Edited)
I received the Seals-it split firewall grommet from Summit yesterday, here is another fit check for the PCM and harnesses. I mocked up the configuration using cardboard to which I attached my drawing. Now that I see the actual position of the harness where is passes through the FW grommet, I see that that center hole size needs to be revised. The grommet I purchased has a 1 1/4" center hole for the harness, but the engine harness at that point is not round, but more of a rounded rectangle 5/8" x1 5/8". So I am going to exchange the 4.5" OD and 1.25" ID FW grommet for a 4.5" x 0.625" one. I will have to oblong the hole at the top and bottom, but this way I can alter the hole for the harness as needed to fit. The Seals-it split FW grommet is more delicate than I had expected, so I plan to make a rubber backing plate and metal ring to place on the wheel well side to add strength and help keep out dirt.
I can also see now that I am going to have to strip off much of the split loom so that I can get the harness to lay down like I want around the C146 connectors that interconnect the engine and body harness as well as for the starter signal. The wire normally used to run the fan will be redirected to the fan relays I will mount below the PCM.


 
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