289 engine build thread.

Dang! I have a 1965 289 with less than 7500 miles on a .030 rebuild. All it needs is a stock cam and intake/carb/air cleaner to be complete. You're close enough you could have picked it up! I also have the original heads.

One of these days I'll get around to putting it in the classifieds.

Looking forward to following your build! Please post lots of pictures.

09Frank65 said:

Dang! I have a 1965 289 with less than 7500 miles on a .030 rebuild. All it needs is a stock cam and intake/carb/air cleaner to be complete. You're close enough you could have picked it up! I also have the original heads.

One of these days I'll get around to putting it in the classifieds.

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Hrmm... tell me more!

Well 09Frank65 guess that's an opportunity missed. Hopefully some one else in need will see it and pick it up. I got this block for $200 cleaned and magnafluxed. I still have to pay for the boring and the rest of the work.

I will post pictures once I get the block home and start on the assembly.

I'm looking forward to reading about your progress as well, because I'm ready to start on my engine. There's so much info. out there it gets very confusing.

Quick question: A retired machinist I talked to told me not to bore over .030 on a 289/302 because it will start to have over-heating issues. Wonder if that's true?

c.midland said:

Quick question: A retired machinist I talked to told me not to bore over .030 on a 289/302 because it will start to have over-heating issues. Wonder if that's true?

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I've been hearing this since the 70s. But I've talked to people running blocks bored .090 over and they're fine.

My theory is people have bad cooling systems, their engines overheat and they blame it on the block being bored.

Most of what I've read and researched says that .080 is a far as you should go on these blocks. That's one of the reasons that my original block is no good. It's already there. I'm excited about this project. I think it will be a fun learning experience with my son. I remember rebuilding a lawnmower engine with my dad. This is a much bigger project and much cooler!!

A 289 block that is .040 over may run alright without any overheating problems but .060 will overheat in most situations. Sure you can go to a 3 row alum. radiator, high flow pump, elec. fan, water wetter and on and on but that's not normal or won't look stock under the hood. I have never seen or heard of a 289 being bored .080 and don't believe you could use one for street use. Most of these car's ran a little hot to begin with or that's what the temp gauge would say. This experience with your son will be priceless.

tooponies said:

A 289 block that is .040 over may run alright without any overheating problems"..........

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Heck, even the 0.030" over will often times have an unfixable overheating issue. Anything over that, you roll the dice and take your chances.

Z

zray said:

Heck, even the 0.030" over will often times have an unfixable overheating issue. Anything over that, you roll the dice and take your chances.

Z

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Have you personally experienced such a problem with a bored block? I don't mean to challenge you here, zray. Rather, I'm just wondering how much of this is real experience and how much is heresay.

I would also like to know if this applies to all engine blocks, Ford Windsor blocks, all Ford blocks or whatever.

When I took my Cleveland block to the machinist, it had already been bored .030. Since the PO never changed the oil, the cylinders had a lot of taper. My machinist had to bore the cylinder to .060 to get them true. I was really worried about this. But my machinist assured me he bores Cleveland blocks to .060, and even .090, without issues. I also asked this question on the 351C forum and multiple people replied they were running Cleveland blocks bored .060 with no issues.

I built a 351W years ago and bored it .030. It didn't run any hotter after the bore than before the bore.

Thanks.

The 289 in my fastback is .030 over. too, and ran as cool afterwards as it did before - despite a hotter cam, intake, carb, heads, etc.

My personal suspicion (definitely not a scientifically proven fact) is that people who bore engines are frequently modifying them, as well, and the modifications are what lead to overheating problems.

Just my experience and opinion...

MrFreeze

My sons 5.0 so .040 over, and temps run the same as mine did with a stock bore. Granted, a much better cooling system than a vintage car though.

Klutch said:

Have you personally experienced such a problem with a bored block? I don't mean to challenge you here, zray. Rather, I'm just wondering how much of this is real experience and how much is heresay.

I would also like to know if this applies to all engine blocks, Ford Windsor blocks, all Ford blocks or whatever.

When I took my Cleveland block to the machinist, it had already been bored .030. Since the PO never changed the oil, the cylinders had a lot of taper. My machinist had to bore the cylinder to .060 to get them true. I was really worried about this. But my machinist assured me he bores Cleveland blocks to .060, and even .090, without issues. I also asked this question on the 351C forum and multiple people replied they were running Cleveland blocks bored .060 with no issues.

I built a 351W years ago and bored it .030. It didn't run any hotter after the bore than before the bore.

Thanks.

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A while back there was a guy on the forum who built a twin turbo 302 for his 65 FB. He was also a mechanical engineer. He said that cast iron is an excellent conductor of heat and wall thickness really had nothing to do with over heating. Makes sense to me. If a few thousandth of an inch are critical to over heating, to me it would seem if that the OD of the cylinder wall would have to have consistent diameter as well, meaning it too would have to be machined to control thickness of the wall. Heck, look at specs for wall thickness on the major and minor thrust sides. But we know the outside of the wall which is inside, there is no real way to do this.

I say any over heating on a rebuilt is simple because more HP means more heat and the rest of the system maybe was adequate for a worn out engine isn't adequate for a new engine. The only concern I would have about over boring is wall deflection and lost power.

IIRC, the guy's name was RT100.

I'm sure we can all come with stories about this 302 and that 351 and so forth but the OP was talking about a 289 and that was the subject engine in question.

If you ask me, here are the top reasons for overheating after a rebuild....

1. Problem with the cooling system (bad/plugged radiator, coolant passages, thermostat, lower hose closing, air pocket, lack of coolant, bad pressure cap, etc.)
2. Improper tuning (lean mixture, retarded timing, restricted exhaust, valves too tight, pistons/rings with insufficient clearances, etc.)
3. Parts mismatch (old design block, new design heads or vice-versa, wrong water pump, wrong head gaskets or installed backwards, etc.)

I just remembered a story I want to share on this subject. A few years back a couple friends of mine and the wives were on a cruise in the Georgia mountains and on our way home back towards Atlanta we ran into a traffic jam. Well it wasn't long that the guy in the 66 red vert w/289 was hollering over the 2 way radio he had to get off to the side. He made it to parking area and was overheating to the point of smoke rolling out from under the hood. These 2 guys had the work done on their cars by a very reputable guy that was a classic car guru. I don't remebember for sure how much overbore he had in the engine but the point is it ran hot in traffic. He ask me how come I wasn't running hot and I just said "I know how to build an engine". Never told them that what they thought was a 289 in my fastback was actually a 302 mexican block.

Well, my previous engine was bored .060 over and the only times I had problems with overheating was when the water pump went and when I had a leak in the radiator. I drove the car as a daily driver for about 5 years. Everything I've read has told my that I'm fine with this.

I think you'll be alright with the .040 over. To go anymore then that is temping fate in my opinion for what it's worth.

Klutch said:

Have you personally experienced such a problem with a bored block? I don't mean to challenge you here, zray. Rather, I'm just wondering how much of this is real experience and how much is heresay.

I would also like to know if this applies to all engine blocks, Ford Windsor blocks, all Fords.

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In my experience this is mainly a 289 / 302 issue

Not speaking anecdotally at all. I know first hand of maybe 50 engine overhauls that only went to +0.030 and had significant problems with overheating from then on. Most don't, but there are no guarantees that +0.030" will be trouble free.

Z.