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289 engine build thread.

7403 Views 79 Replies 21 Participants Last post by  timthechef
I'm starting this to post progress on my engine build. My son and I are going to put this engine together.

I have gotten a 1965 289 block. It's cleaned, decked, and bored .040 over. The shop is going to install cam bearings, soft plugs and paint it black. Then we will start working on the crank shaft. ( I still have to get that out of the old engine )

I will be reusing the heads from my old engine and anything else that I can salvage.
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This is all about heat transfer to a point.

Initially, heat from ignition, friction, etc. is retained in the cylinder walls. At the point that temperature exceeds the coolant temperature heat is transferred to the coolant and the cooling system has to do it's job. It doesn't matter if the bore is standard or overbored, this is always true.

As you bore the cylinders, the amount of iron left to to retain the heat is reduced and heat is transferred to the coolant sooner. ,030 doesn't sound like a lot but when you calculate the surface area it becomes significant.

Normally surface area is your friend in heat transfer. But in this case, the surface area contacting the coolant doesn't change so no help there.

So, to a point whether increasing the bore creates overheating problems is singularly a function of whether your cooling system is up to snuff.

At some point the walls become thin enough that hot spots are created causing localized boiling and vaporization of the coolant. Mechanically, this is destined to fail.

I have seen 289/302 blocks running .060 over with no issues. Motors that are otherwise stock had no more heating issues than they did before.

Modifying the motor for more HP creates more heat, creating more demand on the cooling system necessitating the need for cooling modifications.

Personally, if I was modifying a motor I'd go no more than .030 over. For a stock build I'd go as high as .060. Past that I'd be concerned about localized overheating.

And by the way - if you are using a pre 73(?) block, be sure to drill out the coolant passages on the block deck. This will eliminate some localized steam pockets and does make a difference.
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In my experience this is mainly a 289 / 302 issue

Not speaking anecdotally at all. I know first hand of maybe 50 engine overhauls that only went to +0.030 and had significant problems with overheating from then on. Most don't, but there are no guarantees that +0.030" will be trouble free.

Z.
You're right Z - it's all about the individual block. Core shift, casting debris left behind, crud buildup etc. Every block is different.
From a thermodynamics standpoint the argument over the mass of the cast iron holds little water (nice pun, eh?). The localized hot spots issue is right on, but rare. If thicker cylinder walls and cast iron are so good at absorbing heat and conducting it to the coolant, shouldn't we all have cast iron radiators to send the heat in the other direction?
And by the way - if you are using a pre 73(?) block, be sure to drill out the coolant passages on the block deck. This will eliminate some localized steam pockets and does make a difference.
Please tell me more about this. I am in the process of assembling my .030 over 289. Had the machining done by a very reputable shop but if I can enhance the cooling. Running AFR165 heads on a 1966 289 block. They may have done it but I would like to check myself.
All the theorical talk has got me wanting to go back and get that physics PHd I somehow missed picking up during the hazy 1960's.

Overheating happens sometimes with +0.030" over bores. Not a majority of the time, but often enough so I don't want to buy an engine or car that's already there. At the minimum you certainly don't have any safety margin beyond that for future overhauls.

Z
Please tell me more about this. I am in the process of assembling my .030 over 289. Had the machining done by a very reputable shop but if I can enhance the cooling. Running AFR165 heads on a 1966 289 block. They may have done it but I would like to check myself.
There's a lot of discussion on the net about this...

Google "Small Block Ford Steam Holes" and read the comments, then judge on your own.
Thanks bartl
If you ask me, here are the top reasons for overheating after a rebuild....

1. Problem with the cooling system (bad/plugged radiator, coolant passages, thermostat, lower hose closing, air pocket, lack of coolant, bad pressure cap, etc.)
2. Improper tuning (lean mixture, retarded timing, restricted exhaust, valves too tight, pistons/rings with insufficient clearances, etc.)
3. Parts mismatch (old design block, new design heads or vice-versa, wrong water pump, wrong head gaskets or installed backwards, etc.)
I'll buy that.

And I will also accept that some engine blocks have issues which make them more likely to run hot when bored out.
I'll buy that.

And I will also accept that some engine blocks have issues which make them more likely to run hot when bored out.
I should add that most of my experience with this issue has been with 289 HiPo engines that are putting out 50+ more horsepower than the A or C code engines. This alone might make them more susceptible to overheating when over-bored.

Z
Well I'm not going to be building race engine. I'll be staying pretty close to stock. If cost's allow I may put a 4 barrel carb on it and I probably will port the heads a little but really that's basically the extent of it. I just want to be able to cruise around a bit and maybe feel a the power of a classic V 8 a little. No street outlaws for me!!
From a thermodynamics standpoint the argument over the mass of the cast iron holds little water (nice pun, eh?). The localized hot spots issue is right on, but rare. If thicker cylinder walls and cast iron are so good at absorbing heat and conducting it to the coolant, shouldn't we all have cast iron radiators to send the heat in the other direction?
Don't be silly:p. A cast iron radiator would be retaining the heat in comparison - no way to get the kind of surface area you can with a finned copper or aluminum radiator. Not to mention would weigh over 100 lbs.
All the theorical talk has got me wanting to go back and get that physics PHd I somehow missed picking up during the hazy 1960's.



Z
A thermodynamics PhD would have worked better but the 80's were almost as hazy as the 60's!
Well good news. My son and I got the old engine apart tonight. So next week I'll be able to drop the crank shaft and pistons with the connecting rods off at the machine shop and see if they can be reused.
Don't be silly:p. A cast iron radiator would be retaining the heat in comparison - no way to get the kind of surface area you can with a finned copper or aluminum radiator. Not to mention would weigh over 100 lbs.
Yeah, but it would be AWESOME in a front end collision. :pirate:
A thermodynamics PhD would have worked better but the 80's were almost as hazy as the 60's!
Onward thru the fog ..... Furry Freak Brothers


Z
3
I know you guys love pictures so here are a few for you. These are of the old block, and the crankshaft and the camshaft. I'm going to try to reuse the crank (after is gets checked out by the machine shop first) but the block and cam are junk.

Attachments

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Why do you say the block's junk, just because the bores are rusty?
Why do you say the block's junk, just because the bores are rusty?
+1. I've seen a LOT worse. Check the cylinders. If the block hasn't been bored before it may be fine.
That block is already at .060 over. There's no room left to bore.
tim you should try contacting vamustang aka Chris Stage for another block.
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