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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 289 that was bored out 30 thousands of an inch about 8 years ago. I thought the waterpump had been replaced but I'm failing to find the paperwork... which usually means it was deemed good enough and we just reused it.

Now the timing cover gasket is leaking (help from VMF on another thread).

While this work is being done, it seems prudent to replace the waterpump.

My question is, what is recommended? Go with CAST or ALUMINUM? What are the pros/cons vs the typical (cast will rust more and aluminum is lighter)

I don't do any track racing with this, I try to keep it close to stock.

If anyone has part numbers from sites, please add them in to the replies.

Thank you all again so VERY much!
 

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I'm not the expert, but I had a similar situation this past summer. I have a 72 302 that I want to look like a 65 289. I had the option of using the 65 timing cover that uses a aluminum water pump or a 66 timing cover that uses the cast iron water pump. I went with the 66 cover because the cast iron water pump seemed to be much easier to find and a more robust design. If your looking at aftermarket pumps, someone else will be able to better advise you.
 

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Rallye has the straight dope on the way the factory did things. Today you can find water pumps that fit the 66 front cover that are made from aluminum. I have one made by edelbrock.
The real way to distinguish the pumps and front covers is whether or not the water pump has a metal backing plate on it. the 65 design has no backing plate, the back half of the pump cavity is formed in the front cover.
The 66 design has a steel plate that encloses the pump cavity, The front cover has two D shaped holes for the water to exit the pump and flow through the cover and into the block.

Short answer, buy the pump design that fits the front cover you have on your motor.
 

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It all depends on which cover you have that you want to mount the water pump as they are not interchangeable. If you currently have the aluminum pump on your cover, then you have to go with aluminum pump, etc. I ran the original Ford aluminum pump for years on my 289 without any issues until it finally started weeping coolant. I later switched to another cover and had to use the iron pump, but found one made of aluminum. That's what is going to go back onto my current engine build.
 

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I have a ‘65 289 engine. I replaced my water pump with one I got from Advance Auto Parts. Manufactured by Carquest - part number T3051. Aluminum, open back like previous posters described. Working well.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I had no idea that some water pumps fit without the metal backplate. These models seem to be 1964-6/1/65.

I thought all water pumps had the metal back plate between it and the timing cover.

I guess that is what NPD means when something is marked PRE 6/1/65 and AFTER 6/1/65. The PRE 65 must have the proper timing cover to use the aluminum WP. Whereas the AFTER 65 use the metal backplate to separate the timing cover from the WP.

Example of 64-65 aluminum to replace cast: WATER PUMP - #8501-3A - National Parts Depot

Example of Post 6/1/65 requiring backing plate: WATER PUMP - #8501-2B - National Parts Depot
 

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Yes, the aluminum vs cast material goes with specific timing covers.

As noted by 74Rallye, the cast pump is carried by auto parts stores very commonly, whereas the aluminum one is harder to find. On the other hand, the aluminum one is much lighter.

My motor is a '64 289 so it uses the early timing cover that goes with the aluminum pump with no backing plate. Way back when, I had it rebuilt by a guy in Oregon with a new bearing and HiPo impellar that works spectacularly. It seemed to be the only way to avoid poorly-made repro parts, which are prevalent throughout the auto parts houses and online websites.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I checked and also started referencing my Mustang and Ford Small Block V8 vol 1 & 2 book and now it's making more sense.

What I have on there at the moment is aluminum timing cover and aluminum water pump. I confirmed this by taking a magnet and checking.

I'm torn because my Mustang block (when rebuilding it) was dated Sept 1965, so I guess in reality it could have possibly had either cast pump + timing cover or aluminum pump + timing cover.

I have the falcon cluster in there, so I think I'll order in aluminum water pump + timing cover before L8 change. These parts are being ordered in just in case they are deemed needing replacing. The real problem at this point is the timing cover gasket is leaking.

Thanks all!

One last question, any reason to spend the extra $$$ between the Scott Drake vs the Cardone A1 cause it's just north of 100 bucks difference. I see the SD comes with two bolts plus the gasket but I'm already getting the gasket with the timing cover. Plus I'll be rebuying the bolt kit to make this job easier.

SD: WATER PUMP - #8501-3B - National Parts Depot
CA1: WATER PUMP - #8501-3A - National Parts Depot
 

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The scott drake ones are probably manufactured by cardone or whoever makes theirs.

I have the cast iron style timing cover on my '65 (a reproduction as the original was trashed) and an aluminum 'cast iron style' water pump on my 331. I originally tried to keep the engine bay looking 1965 correct. Now it's just whatever works best after I swapped to a serpentine belt setup from CVF.. I swapped to an edelbrock pump from the parts store variant and saw ZERO change in flow, pressure or temperatures. Had I not been given it, I'd say they totally are NOT worth it.

The aluminum is lighter, sheds heat better and someone once told me the bearings as a result last longer. But I'm betting that just an old wives tale!

If you're painting everything (black for '65 or blue for '66) then it shouldn't matter in terms of looks. If you're leaving the aluminum bare thats probably fine too.
 

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Before I spent that money on the Drake pump I’d spring a little more for the Edelbrock aluminum pump. I have this on my early 289, but haven’t run it yet (engine is on a stand).

 

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You can find the original style aluminum water pumps on RockAuto, but as Kelly says, you just don't know what you're getting when buying a rebuilt water pump. It all depends who has the worse hangover that day when putting them together.
 

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Before I spent that money on the Drake pump I’d spring a little more for the Edelbrock aluminum pump. I have this on my early 289, but haven’t run it yet (engine is on a stand).

I run the Edelbrock pump on my car after dealing with almost instantly failing China pumps. It has a stout bearing and a bronze impeller along with a much thicker neck. We had a rash of forum members breaking the aluminum castings pretty much right out of the driveway after installing new Cardone or similar China pumps. I know one member gave up and changed the timing cover and converted to the later style cast with backing plate pump.

I bought 6 pumps trying to find the best one. 4 of them sold under different names were the same Cardone pump with a crappy stamped steel impeller and casting numbers and markings. The Gates 43072 GATES 43072 Water Pump | RockAuto is a China pump but has a cast impeller. The neck that seems to be the weak point is not reinforced unfortunately. I kept the Gates pump just in case but sent the other China pumps back. A couple pictures below one of the Edelbrock pump and the other of the Gates pump. At a minimum, I would go with the Gates pump. I also bought an extra Edelbrock pump and carry it with me to the track. I figured I'd better buy one before Edelbrock goes commie!
779181

Edelbrock pump
779182

Gates pump.
 

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I checked and also started referencing my Mustang and Ford Small Block V8 vol 1 & 2 book and now it's making more sense.

What I have on there at the moment is aluminum timing cover and aluminum water pump. I confirmed this by taking a magnet and checking.

I'm torn because my Mustang block (when rebuilding it) was dated Sept 1965, so I guess in reality it could have possibly had either cast pump + timing cover or aluminum pump + timing cover.

I have the falcon cluster in there, so I think I'll order in aluminum water pump + timing cover before L8 change. These parts are being ordered in just in case they are deemed needing replacing. The real problem at this point is the timing cover gasket is leaking.

Thanks all!

One last question, any reason to spend the extra $$$ between the Scott Drake vs the Cardone A1 cause it's just north of 100 bucks difference. I see the SD comes with two bolts plus the gasket but I'm already getting the gasket with the timing cover. Plus I'll be rebuying the bolt kit to make this job easier.

SD: WATER PUMP - #8501-3B - National Parts Depot
CA1: WATER PUMP - #8501-3A - National Parts Depot
ALL the timing covers are aluminum. The main difference is whether the water pump is "self-contained" having a steel back-plate or whether the timing cover forms the back half of the "water pump assembly" using a (factory aluminum) pump without a backplate and a "proud" impeller. Unless originality is a concern, I recommend the later-style timing cover with the front crank seal that installs from the OUTSIDE and a Milodon 16230 aluminum water pump WITH a backplate.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
ALL the timing covers are aluminum. The main difference is whether the water pump is "self-contained" having a steel back-plate or whether the timing cover forms the back half of the "water pump assembly" using a (factory aluminum) pump without a backplate and a "proud" impeller. Unless originality is a concern, I recommend the later-style timing cover with the front crank seal that installs from the OUTSIDE and a Milodon 16230 aluminum water pump WITH a backplate.
This is the 2nd time in the same thread you've recommended the Milodon 16230 aluminum WP. Quick Question, on the Summit description, the recommend a "High Flow" thermostat. Is that just some upsell BS or is there really a T-Stat that is "high flow"

Just wanted your two cents. If I'm going to change the Timing Cover (again it's the gasket that seems to be leaking) to the style that supports the "cast" WP (even if the WP is a cast style but is aluminum) I'd like to know these little nuisances. I'm in Florida, so cooling is a must. Already looking to invest $600 in a new RAD to replace the Champion for a cleaner stock look.

From Summit's website:
• A high-flow thermostat is recommended when using a high-volume pump.
 

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Do not use one of the chain store aluminum pumps! If you're bored you can look up the thread I have about them a year two ago, They are all now made in china, and fail within minutes of use. They look great, but the casting and machining is very poor quality. The snout splits or the bearing come out with any side loading. If you want aluminum ge the Edelbrock pump.
779208
or
 

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This is the 2nd time in the same thread you've recommended the Milodon 16230 aluminum WP. Quick Question, on the Summit description, the recommend a "High Flow" thermostat. Is that just some upsell BS or is there really a T-Stat that is "high flow"

Just wanted your two cents. If I'm going to change the Timing Cover (again it's the gasket that seems to be leaking) to the style that supports the "cast" WP (even if the WP is a cast style but is aluminum) I'd like to know these little nuisances. I'm in Florida, so cooling is a must. Already looking to invest $600 in a new RAD to replace the Champion for a cleaner stock look.

From Summit's website:
• A high-flow thermostat is recommended when using a high-volume pump.
Can I ask what you’re looking at for a radiator that costs $600? ACP makes a very high quality aluminum radiator for $300 that with some black radiator paint will look pretty stock.
 

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The difference is the engine build. If it was built before Change Level 7, it uses the open aluminum pump, and after, CL 7, the closed cast iron pump. There were other differences in CL 7, such as the camshaft retainer and upper timing gear.

The weight of the pump is of little consequence. Coupla gallons of gas in the tank weighs more than the difference. I have a rebuilt original in my car. Went through a whole shelf of them, found one with the proper curved vanes for my HP.

As for "Chinese crap", that can be a problem for iron or aluminum parts.
 
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