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This is the 2nd time in the same thread you've recommended the Milodon 16230 aluminum WP. Quick Question, on the Summit description, the recommend a "High Flow" thermostat. Is that just some upsell BS or is there really a T-Stat that is "high flow"

Just wanted your two cents. If I'm going to change the Timing Cover (again it's the gasket that seems to be leaking) to the style that supports the "cast" WP (even if the WP is a cast style but is aluminum) I'd like to know these little nuisances. I'm in Florida, so cooling is a must. Already looking to invest $600 in a new RAD to replace the Champion for a cleaner stock look.

From Summit's website:
• A high-flow thermostat is recommended when using a high-volume pump.
"Recommended Parts" should be taken with a grain of salt. From a sellers perspective it serves two purposes... yes, it's an "upsell", but it's also a good reminder of parts where it MAY be a good time to consider replacement. I'd always consider replacing the thermostat when doing a water pump since it's a handy time to do so. I used to always use the Robertshaw brand but now that they're owned by FlowKooler I don't know... I haven't picked one up to compare. I think the "high flow" may be a slight exaggeration... perhaps it's 5% better? Who knows. I also recommend "blueprinting" your timing cover.... you can, and should, port-match the water passages just like you would a manifold-to-cylinder-head to improve the flow characteristics of the coolant. As far as radiators are concerned, I'm still a traditionalist using copper-brass units. Yes, aluminum is stronger for its size so you can make the tubes wider and provide the same surface area for the fins in fewer rows, and aluminum IS a bit better than copper at transferring heat from the coolant to the tube, but copper is better than aluminum at transferring the heat from the tube to the fins and air so it's a trade-off. I've never had a cooling issue that wasn't precipitated by a broken/defective component, myself. I find that when people have overheating issues they tend to have tunnel vision, focusing on the COOLING side of the problem while ignoring the heat-loading side, namely engine efficiency, as a device whose purpose is to turn heat energy into reciprocating motion. Various things can affect engine efficiency including design, mismatched components, mechanical adjustments such as valve pre-load, valve and ignition timing, etc. A high-efficiency engine produces less waste heat than an inefficient one.
 

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Before making a purchase I would remove your pump to see what the timing cover looks like. The back of mine was heavily worn from the anti-freeze, cavitation of less than 70k miles of use. I assume this was the thought process by Ford in upgrading to the newer style with backing plate. Because of this wear I opted for a new timing cover and went with the newer style
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Can I ask what you’re looking at for a radiator that costs $600? ACP makes a very high quality aluminum radiator for $300 that with some black radiator paint will look pretty stock.
I have a champion 4-row Aluminum RAD in there now. Yes I could paint it black but (1) that defeats the purpose of polished aluminum and (2) the top of the RAD is flat and does not have the same contours as the factory radiators. #2 is pretty much the case in ALL Aluminum RADs that I have seen.

I am looking at this radiator from US Radiator: http://usradiator.com/ford-mustang-1964-5-66-v8-260-289-radiator.html
Model 050510SNHZ, 3-rows, Core Thickness = 2"

Description "Copper 80's style core with 1/2" tubes on 3/8" centers. Increased cooling efficiency without modifications to car. 4 row High Efficiency offers more cooling efficiency than aluminum cores due to tubes on 3/8" centers. Copper/brass construction to ensure dependability"
 

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I have a champion 4-row Aluminum RAD in there now. Yes I could paint it black but (1) that defeats the purpose of polished aluminum and (2) the top of the RAD is flat and does not have the same contours as the factory radiators. #2 is pretty much the case in ALL Aluminum RADs that I have seen.

I am looking at this radiator from US Radiator: Ford Mustang, 1964.5-66 V8 260/289 Radiator
Model 050510SNHZ, 3-rows, Core Thickness = 2"

Description "Copper 80's style core with 1/2" tubes on 3/8" centers. Increased cooling efficiency without modifications to car. 4 row High Efficiency offers more cooling efficiency than aluminum cores due to tubes on 3/8" centers. Copper/brass construction to ensure dependability"
The ACP is not flat like the Champion (I too do not care for the flat top of the Champion). I by no means would try to tell anyone how to spend their money, as I am an expert at overbuying sometimes, but at less than half the cost of the US Radiator I would still suggest checking out the ACP if the look is all you're needing to change (doesn't sound like you have overheating issues). I know many people on the forum run them with great results. I plan on going this route in my build. Again, it's your money, but might be worth looking into before spending an extra $400.

Here's a pic where you can see it has the top contours:

779234
 

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FlowKooler has a very nice pump. It’s high volume up to 3,000 rpm. Which is where most overheating occurs; in town & stop ‘n go traffic, etc.

Ive been using them for years and have never been disappointed.


Z
 

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Discussion Starter #27
FlowKooler has a very nice pump. It’s high volume up to 3,000 rpm. Which is where most overheating occurs; in town & stop ‘n go traffic, etc.

Ive been using them for years and have never been disappointed.


Z
The ACP is not flat like the Champion (I too do not care for the flat top of the Champion). I by no means would try to tell anyone how to spend their money, as I am an expert at overbuying sometimes, but at less than half the cost of the US Radiator I would still suggest checking out the ACP if the look is all you're needing to change (doesn't sound like you have overheating issues). I know many people on the forum run them with great results. I plan on going this route in my build. Again, it's your money, but might be worth looking into before spending an extra $400.

Here's a pic where you can see it has the top contours:

View attachment 779234
Thank you both.

Since putting in the 4 row Champion, I have not experienced any overheating issues. In fact, the TEMP gauge never got past the 1/3 mark. I know these old gauges are not accurate but when I had the original 2 row in there and the needle was at the 3/4 mark, I tend to believe that it's a good representation of what's going on within the block.

I will look at the ACP as well now that you've provided the picture. I could see some black paint making that look near stock.

Just another question here, when I replace the radiator, what TEMP thermostat should I go with? If it cools the same as what I have in there now (TEMP gauge not going to middle when idle/highway/city driving), should I go higher or lower T-Stat?

I think Ford factory was a 190 or 195 t-stat (I believe factory was 190 but I can't seem to find 190, 195 is closest).

Just wondering if closer to factory will help the coolant stay in the block and heat up longer or if a lower t-stat does that.

I know proper operating temp helps with gas mileage overall as well as general wear an tear. Too cold of an engine is not a good thing... from what I've read up on.
 

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Get the 195 F thermostat. That will allow your car to warm up the quickest, and keep it from running at too low of a temperature. Ford knew what it was doing when they designed the engines with a 195 thermostat in mind. Second guessing the Ford engineers does not work out very well

Z

PS. Read the FlowKooler information regarding coolant time in the block. That strategy is based on bad science as they prove quite succinctly
 

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I see a lot of poo-pooing the aluminum chain store pumps. The
Do not use one of the chain store aluminum pumps! If you're bored you can look up the thread I have about them a year two ago, They are all now made in china, and fail within minutes of use. They look great, but the casting and machining is very poor quality. The snout splits or the bearing come out with any side loading. If you want aluminum ge the Edelbrock pump. View attachment 779208 or
That pump appears to have a very thin die-cast housing like I've never seen before. 😲

Although I haven't installed it yet, I recently got an Airtex AW1028H aluminum pump with a sand-cast housing that is pretty thick and heavy. It looks just like an iron pump, only made of aluminum. Might be a decent $50 alternative to specialty pumps like Edelbrock and Milodon.
 

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I see a lot of poo-pooing the aluminum chain store pumps. The


That pump appears to have a very thin die-cast housing like I've never seen before. 😲
thats the way Ford build them until late 65 When they switched to the cast iron pump.

779328
 

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I meant the thinness of it. It also doesn't look like the supports are properly shaped where they merge with the bearing boss.
 

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I grenaded a water pump in early 2019 while on a mustang run here texas. I went through three more pumps varying brands. The shafts and bearings kept slipping back until the impeller would rub on the timing cover. I finally figured out the problem. Was missing the little bushing that went between the clutch fan and the spacer the make sure the fan was centered. Even though the 4 bolts should have centered it they were slightly off. When I got on it hard the vibration was destroying the pump. I am running the early aluminum model pump. As someone mentioned before check your pump cover for pitting and damage from sitting water and coolant over the years. Make sure that you have the fan properly centered or the nicest pump.in the world will not last.
 

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I got lucky last time I changed a pump and went through the local stock of remanufactured pumps til I found one with the C6 engineering number. When it leaked years later, I rebuilt it. You and / or your local machine shop can rebuild your original. I have a couple more original cast iron pumps and plan to rebuild them as needed. I also have a '65 289 here that still has its original aluminum pump.
 

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I see a lot of poo-pooing the aluminum chain store pumps. The


That pump appears to have a very thin die-cast housing like I've never seen before. 😲

Although I haven't installed it yet, I recently got an Airtex AW1028H aluminum pump with a sand-cast housing that is pretty thick and heavy. It looks just like an iron pump, only made of aluminum. Might be a decent $50 alternative to specialty pumps like Edelbrock and Milodon.
That is the wrong pump for the 65 aluminum pump discussion going on here,That is the 66 style with a backing plate.
 

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I replaced the pump on my 65 and went with a Cardone from Summit with a lifetime warranty.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
... I finally figured out the problem. Was missing the little bushing that went between the clutch fan and the spacer the make sure the fan was centered. Even though the 4 bolts should have centered it they were slightly off. When I got on it hard the vibration was destroying the pump...
What is this bushing part number (or link to a parts site)?

I'm going to be tearing all this apart, might as well make sure I have this bushing part in as well.

I've got 2 different spacers coming in at various lengths so that the new radiator and fan blades will be properly spaced apart from one another.
 

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What is this bushing part number (or link to a parts site)?

I'm going to be tearing all this apart, might as well make sure I have this bushing part in as well.

I've got 2 different spacers coming in at various lengths so that the new radiator and fan blades will be properly spaced apart from one another.
The bushing comes with the clutch when you buy a new one. I was reusing a clutch and didn't realize that I had lost the bushing. Not sure on the part number.
 
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