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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does a 351 C fit on the same motor mounts as the W?

How much more does the C weigh?

Any major problems other than cylinder wall cracking?
 

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Yes it has the same mounts and uses the same flywheel and bellhousing so the trans will work as well...I think the cleveland is around 40ish pounds heavier.
 

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The C is roughly 50 lbs more than the W when comparing 100% oem stock. I believe a big part of that is in the wider C heads, so if you spring for aluminum heads and compare it to an alum head W the difference would be even less.

Cylinder cracking is not normally a problem for a street engine. The notion came about years ago when everyone who raced a Ford wanted a C motor for their race car, but with C production ended in '74 the bone yards were picked clean so a lot of racers bored their block out to .060 to clean the cylinders, then spun it to 7000 rpm to use the 4V ports. In a few cases, core shift left one side of the cylinders too thin from the factory so when it was bored passed .030" then subjected to the heat and stress of racing the thin spot gave out. It didn't help matters that a run of 400/351M blocks in '73 were made with faulty casting procedures that resulted in the block splitting down the lifter valley the 1st time the engine came close to overheating. It left the impression on some people that the whole family of engines were crack prone, but it really isn't.

If you want to build a C and start with a virgin block, you should be fine boring it .030" for a rebuild. If the block you start with was already bored it'd be prudent to sonic check the cylinders to make sure core shift isn't too bad before boring it more.
 

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There is a fairly common machine shop mod to help overcome an oil flow/bearing issue... I forget the details of the mod, but any good Ford machine shop should know the mod.

Dave
 

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the oling problem is also a myth, anything under a constant 7500rpm its not needed.

The C is far superior to the 351w
Stock C heads flow more then jsut about any aftermarket w head,
Clevelands go alot of ****, they were banned from most types of racing because they would destroy chevies!
 

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TwinTurboMach1 said:
The C is far superior to the 351w
I'll agree if were talking totally stock engines due to the cylinder heads.It still depends on which cleveland we are talking about though.My stepbrother had a 72 mach 1 with the 2v cleveland and it was a dog..If were going with new aluminium heads I'll take the windsor anyday..The blocks hold up well and they are much more plentiful than the the clevelands...There is so much aftermarket stuff for the windsors you can build them anyway you want.
 

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I think some of the weight issue with a 351C is the block itself. The design of the C has the block as part of the timing cover with a flat metal cover for the rest of it, where the W has an aluminum timing cover--so the C block is a bit longer due to the front timing cover/water neck area.

Put an aluminum intake on the Clevelend and you get back to the same weight.
 

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Now lets not start bashing the 2V. They make pretty decent street heads as anyone who built a Clevor in the 80's will attest (way better flow than oem W heads). The only prob with the factory 2V engine was a ridiculously mild cam and small 2V carb, which was further handicapped buy low 8:1 compression and retarded cam timing for '72 and later emission regs.
 

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IMO, Clevelands were the ones to go with back in the day. Stock vs stock, the cleveland had the upper hand due to the bigger heads. The aftermarket support is much greater with the windsor motors compared to the clevelands. With aftermarket aluminum heads like AFR/Canfield/Trick Flow, you will have a better performing windsor engine at a much lighter weight and less cost. If you like spending a lot of cash on parts, then get a Cleveland. Compare prices of Cleveland vs Windsor parts and you'll see what I mean. The only downfall is reduced hood clearance with the windsor due to the extra inch of deck height.
 

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Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed the lack of comparison to the 4V Cleveland head? I've read numerous comparisons between the different manufacturers heads and 2V Cleveland heads, various 302/351W heads, but rarely will I see a comparison test of an aftermarket cylinder head go up against the 4V Cleveland head. A couple times the comparisons immediately discounted the 4V heads because they were not street friendly and therefore would not be used for comparison.

Dave
 

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if you want to know about the 351C join the 335 series engine forum.

The 4v heads being unstreetable is a myth that waas spread by the rags to help out the small block chevie, With the 351c out of the picture chevies could compete. there are many many clevelands on the forum with 4v heads and Incredible mid range, Everyone always forgets that an engine is part of a combo, If you have a 4v headed motor, make sure you have propper gears, my 4v headed 351c used to be door to door with my buddies similarly modded 454 powered 69 camaro. (cam carb intake headers exhaust)

I ran 4.11s wich i would hit 140mph with, no overdrive. Stock crank rods pistons thats right 7300RPM on a STOCK bottom end.
 

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I think the engine masters challenge answers most questions about which head is better. The big power windsors are running cleveland style heads, ie., CHI or AFD aussie manufactured heads. The windsor is limited by valve placement for port design. The CHI 3V/4V heads are making huge power and flow numbers are outstanding as evidenced by their use on Kaase challenge winning engines. The legacy left by the cleveland with Glidden and Roush speaks volumes. Still amazing how Glidden defeated all comers using a smallblock Ford in a shoebox of a car! Just my 2 cents!
 

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C vs W motor mounts are the same, however, you do have to watch flywheel types, since windsors use the 157 tooth flywheel and if I'm not mistaken the cleveland uses a 164 tooth wheel?

I think the flywheel type would only affect which starter is used.

Just something to think about when swapping around 302/351 stuff with clevelands.
 

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if you want to know about the 351C join the 335 series engine forum.
Thanks, but I think I'll be okay.

I've run the 4V Cleveland heads on a couple Mustangs. I've always been very pleased with their performance, even in sometimes stock form.

Dave
 

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67duskrose said:
C vs W motor mounts are the same, however, you do have to watch flywheel types, since windsors use the 157 tooth flywheel and if I'm not mistaken the cleveland uses a 164 tooth wheel?

I think the flywheel type would only affect which starter is used.

Just something to think about when swapping around 302/351 stuff with clevelands.
Some 302 use 157 tooth flywheel, some 302 use 164 tooth (truck applications IIRC), 351W and 351C both use 164 tooth although some light duty installations of the 351W may have had a 157 tooth.
 

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you can use either flywheel on the cleveland 157 or 164, it must be a 28 oz imbalance though, and you need to have the matching bellhousing.
 

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There is not doubt that the C head is a better all out head. The cheapest CHI head I saw on their web site was $2150. I am not sure if you have to run their intake, but I would think so due to the revised port shapes. To me they are not the best option for a 500 hp motor or even 600 hp. For a street car IMO there is no reason to spend that much on heads.
 
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