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how can I tell the difference between the Cleveland and Windsor in a 351 and why is it such a big deal between the two?? Thanks
 

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I'm retired and looking for a 351 to rebuild to keep me out of trouble in the house give me and excuse to hang out in the garage more. will take any parts and donations to the sanity project
 

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351W uses the same valve cover as a 289/302. Actually, it looks just like a 289/302 but with a taller block and a wider intake manifold. Cleveland has a square valve cover with more bolts.
Easiest way to describe the differences. Other than that, Google Images is your friend!
Differences between the two? Hmmmm...where does one start? The Cleveland design has heads that were designed for breathing better at higher RPM's. At least the 4 bbl heads are. They have larger ports and higher compression chambers. Great on cars with steep rear gears and racing. 2 bbl heads have larger chambers for lower compression and smaller ports for street driving.
Want the best of both worlds? Get either a set of Australian heads or Edelbrocks. Smaller 2bbl ports with 4 bbl chambers. Just make sure you match the intake to the ports. You can get a 4 bbl intake (aftermarket) that is either made for 2bbl or 4bbl heads, but is a 4 bbl intake.
But don't stop there! You can find the elusive 351 Cobra Jet too. Basically a 351C with 4 bolt mains, beefed up rods and crank too, I think. I'm really a Windsor guy myself.
I will warn you of one small issue though. Clevelands cost more to build!
 

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The Cleveland has canted valves,while the winsdor has the conventational looking valves.Also the Cleveland has intergrated timing cover and the Winsdor has a bolted on cover.Fergybikes
 

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As noted above, the coolant/thermostat housing is often the easiest way to tell, as is the bolt cover number, but the timing cover is different as well. On 302/351W the timing cover is cast aluminum and covers the timing chain (chain exposed from block) where as with the 351C the timing chain is set into the block (recessed) and the timing chain cover is nothing more than a piece of plate steel...
 

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One more smal point I need to point out. If you are planning on building this motor for a '65-'66, you better stick to a Windsor. I don't think the Cleveland will fit.
 

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You can get special headers to install the 351C in 65-66. Pretty tight fit.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Great help guys thanks !!!! might put it in one of my 69's some day just thought it would be a fun project. and if I was gonna do it might as well do a Cleveland. gonna go check junk yards for something to start with.
 

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One more smal point I need to point out. If you are planning on building this motor for a '65-'66, you better stick to a Windsor. I don't think the Cleveland will fit.
What! it doesn't fit? Since when? What motor do I have in my car then? :pirate::lol::roflao::biggrin:
 

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Great help guys thanks !!!! might put it in one of my 69's some day just thought it would be a fun project. and if I was gonna do it might as well do a Cleveland. gonna go check junk yards for something to start with.

FYI the Boss 302 and 70/71 351C 4v had very similar heads. In that time these two engines were Ford's production high performance small blocks.
 

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One more smal point I need to point out. If you are planning on building this motor for a '65-'66, you better stick to a Windsor. I don't think the Cleveland will fit.

Oh yes it will - I own one - a 66 fastback with a 351 cleveland and a toploader. The motor bolts right in.
 

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Clevelands are the engines that have all the bad myths and rumors about, like:
-bad oiling
-4V heads won't run at low RPM's
-had to find parts for
-expensive
-they're heavy

None of them are true, except the one that they will smoke the tires at will and that they are the coolest looking engines ever built.
 

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Clevelands are the engines that have all the bad myths and rumors about, like:
-bad oiling
-4V heads won't run at low RPM's
-had to find parts for
-expensive
-they're heavy

None of them are true, except the one that they will smoke the tires at will and that they are the coolest looking engines ever built.
They get worse gas mileage than any of the other SBF. It is cheaper to make power with a 351W than a 351C.

As for low end throttle response - put a 3.00 rear gear and tight converter behind a stock 351C and 351W 4V and see which one gets to 30 mph first.
 

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They get worse gas mileage than any of the other SBF. It is cheaper to make power with a 351W than a 351C.

As for low end throttle response - put a 3.00 rear gear and tight converter behind a stock 351C and 351W 4V and see which one gets to 30 mph first.
You're just listing out more of the myths right?
 

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as of 1970 the 351c 2v stock configuration produced 300 lb/ft of torque bellow 3k, so thats one massive kick in the rear to get things going, Hp is rated at 250. The all mighty 351c 4v, 4 bolt main, made 350 lb/ft, and 300 Hp. After 72 they started "dropping down power" to avoid higher insurance rates, which we know ford to be slight benders of the truth when it came to that department back when, but they did opt for open chamber heads, no more quench. The cobra jet would have the open chambers. Open chamber= less compression.

Only problem I have with the engine in place, is the spark plugs aren't easy to take out, Maybe with a socket with one side cut out would do the trick? Besides that its all thumbs up here. Just be aware these guys like to shred transmissions.
 

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my numbers can be a little off, the 2v is on, but the 4v I would probably have to refer back to my hotrod magazine special on the boss 302 and 351c. Great facts, and tricks from Gap & Roush, and other drag racers, and roadracers used back when, to bad prices didn't stay where they were. Lol they list complete top end kits for like 300 dollars, wish I had a time machine.
 
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