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Someone I know has a good rebuildable core 351 Cleveland, 2 barrel. I have heard they have oiling problems, are thinner than the Windsors are in critical places. This motor I could get for a song. Are they not worth the trouble?
 

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$150 for a standard bore engine. I have heard that the cyl walls are pretty thin, so don't know how much can be overbored.
 

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My brother has been running a .060 over 351c for about 5 years now. I love the Clevelands. Far superior engine to the windsors in my opinion.
 

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They are junk, send it to me and I'll dispose of it for you :jump:

Joe
 

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I'm not sure why such rumors still persist to this day. Maybe since the C hasn't been in production in 34 years some exaggerated stories heard in the shop 30 years ago are handed down to the younger enthusiasts who continue to spread them as factual. The truth is all Ford engines in the 70's were thin wall castings; clev's, windsors, even 429's. Typical policy is to limit overboring to .03" unless a sonic check is done to confirm wall thickness. This belief is due to a problem with core shift that although was more common in the 70's than it is today, was also exaggerated to more of an issue than it actually is. Since there have been some cases of cylinder cracking due to core shift and there is no way to know if or how much core shift took place during casting without a sonic check most shops would recommend a max .030 bore just to be safe, but there are plenty of examples of .040 and .060 bores that are running just fine. On the oiling issue, the cam bearings do get too much oil for a racing situation but unless you're planning to spin the engine at 7000+ rpm for extended periods it shouldn't be a concern. The stock oiling system works fine for most street engines. If you're really worried about it oil restrictor kits are commonly available that limit oil to the cam bearings and thereby force more oil to the crank where it is more beneficial to engine life in high stress, high rpm conditions but as I said it isn't a problem in normal street driving.

Having said all of that, the real question should be is building a clev worth while for your particular needs. Does your car have a C in it now, and this purchase would be to build a replacement engine? Or are you thinking of upgrading a 302 that's in there now or swapping from a 351W? Even 2V C heads breath almost as well as aftermarket heads for the W (and lots better than stock W heads), but there is alot more knowledge and support these days for the W based engine family so building a performance engine can be cheaper with the W. If your building a mild performance engine a lot of the stock C parts can be reused which keeps costs for performance upgrades at a minimum. If you're swapping out a 302 a 351W is almost a drop in swap, where the C would need a completely different set of accessory brackets, exhaust system, and headers. If you have a 351W in the car now the swap to a C doesn't offer much advantage and with a good set of aluminum heads the W can easily out perform a 2V Clev.
 

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This is funny. Growing up when asked what you have under your hood it was always a note of honor to say cleveland at the end of it. Now people are comparing a cleveland to a windsor when at no time in my youth did the windsor ever cause a feeling of self esteem. Hell yes a cleveland is worth rebuilding. If its a good core anyway.
 

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Fordication said:
This is funny. Growing up when asked what you have under your hood it was always a note of honor to say cleveland at the end of it. Now people are comparing a cleveland to a windsor when at no time in my youth did the windsor ever cause a feeling of self esteem. Hell yes a cleveland is worth rebuilding. If its a good core anyway.

This is very true from years ago when the 351W was thought of as more of a station wagon or van motor.

I still get a sense of pride when people ask what's under my hood and I always say, "A Cleveland". ;)
 

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If you have a 351W in the car now the swap to a C doesn't offer much advantage and with a good set of aluminum heads the W can easily out perform a 2V Clev.[/quote

funny i hate when people say there 351w is going to beat my 351c (at502hp and 490toq )has never happen!! dont foget there is new performer rpm 351c alumm head and intake by edelbrock that fixes the low end problem
 

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I don´t have enough experience to tell one from the other on a long term basis, but i have been running a ´40-over bore for two summmers now without any issues. It works really well, it´s not the most powerful engine ever built, but it makes 280 rwhp. And as i said: Not a problem (so far)
However, i can agree with the low-end problems...
 

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I bought a 1970 core to rebuild over time and have spent some effort checking out parts ect. Old school engine shop I go to says there are no real oiling issues with the block unless you run it steady over 6500. There is more cost rebuilding but I belive it is worth it to have a "C" under the hood. I am building for 450 HP and local shop sees no problem with that. Go with the Cleveland !
 

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Dwilson said:
funny i hate when people say there 351w is going to beat my 351c (at502hp and 490toq )has never happen!!
Welp, unfortunately, times change, and there are plenty of 302W with those numbers.. In fact, I know of a bunch of 1.6L Honda's with those numbers.. :D

Anyways, I think it basically comes down to ease of installation as said before.. Any engine can be made to perform, imo.
 

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Welp, unfortunately, times change, and there are plenty of 302W with those numbers.. In fact, I know of a bunch of 1.6L Honda's with those numbers.. :D

Anyways, I think it basically comes down to ease of installation as said before.. Any engine can be made to perform, imo.[/quote]
horse maybe torque,I DON'T think so.
 

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JohnnyK said:
Dwilson said:
Welp, unfortunately, times change, and there are plenty of 302W with those numbers.. In fact, I know of a bunch of 1.6L Honda's with those numbers.. :D

Anyways, I think it basically comes down to ease of installation as said before.. Any engine can be made to perform, imo.

yes that maybe. but they are not doing it with stock heads,intake and stock exhust manafold and 9 to 1 comp like i did
 

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haha.. I know I know.. I'm just saying in this day and age, I don't think the stock form really has anything to do with the output of the power. Install whatever you like/easiest, and go from there. A windsor can outperform a cleveland, and a cleveland can outperform a windsor.
 

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The sad truth is, dollar per horsepower the windsor has a huge advantage. Sure your cleveland may put out 502/490, but for probably 60-70% of the money you have in your motor I could get the same if not more out of my windsor. Some cleveland parts are more than double what a windsor's is. Cleveland junkies always brag about their high flowing heads, but just remember high flow numbers does not always equate to usable horsepower nor is it the only criteria used in head design. Otherwise everyone would be sticking AFR 225 heads on their mild windsor builds :lol: Twisted wedge windsor heads utilize the canted valves too, something clevelands are known for.

I love both motors, and I love the fact that the cleveland has a shorter deck height than the windsor. The darn extra inch deck height of the windsor makes intake and air cleaner choosing a biotch to fit under the hood. In summary, if you are on a tight budget but want to maximize power then I'd lean towards the windsor. If not, go for the cleveland! Not trying to add to the age old cleveland vs windsor war, but just bringing a few more facts to the table ;)
 

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Fordication said:
This is funny. Growing up when asked what you have under your hood it was always a note of honor to say cleveland at the end of it. Now people are comparing a cleveland to a windsor when at no time in my youth did the windsor ever cause a feeling of self esteem.
Funny, I was just about to type the same thing!
 
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