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Discussion Starter #1
I've seen many folks' posts regarding the cost of parts for 351 Clevelands engines.


These have been made during the course of "the Cleveland windsor debate". Most experienced folks give the Cleveland it's due when it comes to power...but still regard it as an expensive engine to build.

To express the cost of putting a Cleveland in a car, we have to look at two costs....cost of a engine core, and cost of the parts to rebuild it.


The cost of obtaining a core doesnt have to be ridiculous.....I obtained the Cleveland in my 70 for 250 bucks, and shortly (just when I pick it up) I'll have a second core for 200 total.

As for the cost of parts....I went to Jeg's and can report thatthe cost of every internal engine component I looked at was comparable....usually the 351W parts were 5 to 10 bucks MORE EXPENSIVE.



Now, I'll concede you wont find any air-gap intakes for Clevelands....a VERY SMALL amount of specific product lines arent made for Clevelands.......


There are even inexpensive aluminum heads offered for them (the imported CHI heads and the blue thunder heads, both about 1500-1600 bucks).


And if your budget wont allow aluminum heads, the 2V factory heads make proportional power with aftermarket windsor heads.



Times have changed
 

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I'm with you. C's can be found for pennies if you know where to look. I found mine sitting in a 65 F100 that we ended up giving away after we harvested the engine and useable parts. Turns out, the engine originally came from a 70 Torino. Per P/O it was a GT Torino he took it from. All said and done, we got a running 351C with c4 for $400.00. 2 years later, it is still going strong.
 

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Agreed! But for those of us with a windsor...


Hi John

The heads come ready to bolt up to Windsor blocks. The end two Cleveland water passages are tapped to accommodate and the heads come supplied with 3/4NPT fittings so they can be plugged. We are about two months away from releasing a manifold to suit all the different deck heights from 8.2 - 9.5. With the manifold we will also include a water transfer kit, so there will be no need for any specialized fabrication. Also our manifold will have bosses cast into it for those people wishing to run fuel injection.

Please don't hesitate to contact me with any further queries







P.O Box 265

Campbellfield 3061

Melbourne Australia

Intl Ph 011 61 419245265

Intl Fax 011 61 395705068

www.chiheads.com


We can have our cake and eat it too.
 

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Bingo. They arent that expensive, especially when you consider that any appreciable power from a W engine is going to REQUIRE after market heads, where I can take my 2V castings down, and have them rebuilt for $250 + parts... normally around $500 for a typical street build.
 

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I wish those C engines did not have such thin castings. Rebuildable cores are getting harder to come by and just can't be punched out multiple times like the W. John
 

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The cost of obtaining a core doesnt have to be ridiculous.....I obtained the Cleveland in my 70 for 250 bucks, and shortly (just when I pick it up) I'll have a second core for 200 total.


There are even inexpensive aluminum heads offered for them (the imported CHI heads and the blue thunder heads, both about 1500-1600 bucks).
I picked up a fully machined, torque plated .030 over 351W for $320. Cores tend to be $50-$100.

Those heads you mentioned are $500-$600 more than Edelbrock, AFR, and Trick Flow for 351W.
 

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Looking through my records...
I spent $10 per flywheel HP to obtain a 1 to 1 cu/hp ratio.
I have plans to invest a little more into the motor in the hopes of moving that 1:1 ratio from the flywheel to the RWHP and expect it to cost approx another $1000 in parts to get there which would maintain the same ratio of $10 per flywheel HP
 

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Looking through my records...
I spent $10 per flywheel HP to obtain a 1 to 1 cu/hp ratio.
I have plans to invest a little more into the motor in the hopes of moving that 1:1 ratio to RWHP and expect it to cost another $1000 in parts to get there which would maintain the same ratio of $10 per flywheel HP
And where is all that hp now ;)
 

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Thank you thank you thank you.
All the horsepower is still there, if the stupid oil pick up hadn't clogged I would still have it. The motor break was an absolute bad luck case, not a case of poor design or bad parts.
 

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If you live in Australia. Don't let this debate get out of hand... pricing works with supply and demand. There is greater demand for W parts since many overlap with the 5L crowd. This increases competition and lowers prices.

As time goes on the C parts will become more expensive and obsolete.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
"Those heads you mentioned are $500-$600 more than Edelbrock, AFR, and Trick Flow for 351W."


And have a very measureable advantage in power capability over those windsor designs...blue thunder and yates heads are the nastiest small block heads period....AND THE YATES HAVE VERY STREETABLE PORTS!!!


Theres a reason they use yates (canted cleveland) heads for nascar.


And when the edelbrock Cleveland heads come out.....theyll probably cost around 1250...well worth the flow!!


H__l.....buy a set of used yates on egay (Ive seen them close for 750) and use streetable valvetrain. Their intakes flow as much as 400CFM (NOT a typo!!) and the exhausts as much as 275!!!! ALL WITH PORTS THE SIZE OF "AS-CAST" ALUMINUM WINDSOR HEADS!!
 

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you are also forgetting the fact that the W was designed from the start as a station wagon motor..... hauling the groceries or the 351C powered race car to the track..
 

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Don't get your hopes up for that $1250 price... how long have those heads been "in development".

C's are great motors but the selection and aftermarket support you get from the W's make them an easier approach. The W is also at an advantage in physical size (not by too much, but enough to make it an easier install for the earlier cars).

Does the weight advantage of having aluminum heads help the argument any?

What about oiling?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The oiling is PARTIALLY an issue......many engine families from the big three have the SAME layout........if you turn 6500 plus in a Cleveland, maybe upgrades are in order.....maybe rod bearings with higher eccentricity will do (though at 6500 plus, I'd change rods anyway!!)


As for the edelbrock heads...guess we'll see when we see....meantime, used yates are an excellent option since their ports are MUCH smaller than factory 4V's


The 9.5 blocks are great for a stroker....gotta give you that.
 

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I think that most of the post anti cleveland are people that have never had one and believe what they read. Windsors are good engines no doubt and my lightning has one. My real REAL close to stock cleveland still has 60hp over it. That was on the same machine that tested them.
 

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Years ago my brother and I shared a garage. On one side I was building my '67 vert up with a 351W on the other side he was building (and still is) his '67 fb with a 351C. This is how it used to sound occasionally.

I remember him waiting months for Power Heads or whatever to finally receive his Aussie heads so they could put'em together for him... months of me pointing out I could call Summit at 3am and have them in 1.5 days ... Ahhh ::
 
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