Vintage Mustang Forums banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
First post here! Just looking for some advice. My original 289/c4 gave out on me and I am looking to swap in a 351W or Cleveland that came out of a 70s bronco…supposedly. I got the engine from one of my buddys for a sweet deal, but he is a mopar guy and he wasn’t able to tell me if it was a Windsor or Cleveland. Is there is any significant differences between the Windsor and Cleveland? Are these blocks worth the hype? Would I have to make any modifications to the motor mounts, power steering, etc? And most importantly would the 351/(W or C) bolt up directly to the c4 and work well?

Thanks in advance!
Instagram Car Page: @hrsmn68 to stay tuned with build!
 

·
I won a special award
Joined
·
8,953 Posts
351 Clevelands never came in the Broncos. I believe the 2nd gen Broncos from 1978 to early 80's Broncos had the 351M and 400M motors which look like a 351C, but are wider and taller along with other issues making them very difficult to put in a vintage Mustang. A 351C will fit just fine in a 1968 Mustang as the engine bay is the same dimensionally from 67-70. You will have to make modification to get the 351C to bolt up to the C4, or switch to a FMX or small block C6 transmission. There are other challenges to converting your car over to a 351C as well. I would suggest running a 351 Windsor instead. It will require the fewest modifications and less expensive than a 351C to rebuild/ buy parts for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41,493 Posts
351 Clevelands never came in the Broncos. I believe the 2nd gen Broncos from 1978 to early 80's Broncos had the 351M and 400M motors which look like a 351C, but are wider and taller along with other issues making them very difficult to put in a vintage Mustang. A 351C will fit just fine in a 1968 Mustang as the engine bay is the same dimensionally from 67-70. You will have to make modification to get the 351C to bolt up to the C4, or switch to a FMX or small block C6 transmission. There are other challenges to converting your car over to a 351C as well. I would suggest running a 351 Windsor instead. It will require the fewest modifications and less expensive than a 351C to rebuild/ buy parts for.
A C4 is a direct bolt up to a 351C.

I agree with Maxum.... if your "351" came from a '78-79 Bronco (the '66-77 Bronco never came with anything larger than a 302) then it's a 351M and that opens a whole new can of worms. For starters, the 351M has the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the 429-460, meaning you'll be looking for a 351M-400 or "385-series" C6 or truck manual transmission bellhousing. The next problem will be engine mounts... the 351M also used the 429-460 mounts, which means fabricating or adapting frame mounts. Lastly, with a deck height that's 1.1" more than a 351C, finding headers that will work will also be a challenge.

Since the engine compartments are pretty much identical from '67-70, a 351C can easily be installed in a '68 using '70 components.
 

·
I won a special award
Joined
·
8,953 Posts
A C4 is a direct bolt up to a 351C.
True, but it's not that straightforward. A factory starter will not bolt up to a C4/351C combo as it will hit the block. I found this out when I tried to bolt a 351C up to the C4 that was behind the 302 I pulled from my car. A mini starter might bolt up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Woodchuck

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,281 Posts
Horse, can you post a picture of the engine you got ? Something that shows the cylinderheads, and a shot of the bellhousing face. We'll tell you what it is. If it is a Cleveland or a Windsor, we'll know from looking. If by chance it is an M, ( likely ) we will help you choose what to do. There are many nice recipes with the M heads on a 289 / 302 block. And depending on the bell pattern(s), I know a guy who might want the block. LSG
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,421 Posts
I put a 1973 351C 4V from a 1973 torino in my 66 mustang. 68 shock towers were put in. Same engine compartment as 67-70. Use 66 engine mounts. Use 1970 Hooker headers for 70 mustang with 351C 4V. A small block C4 , FMX , C6 , or toploader 4 speed will bolt right up.

I'm a geek !
Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Motor vehicle


351C 4V dropped in the 66 after 68 mustang shock towers were installed.

Hood Car Automotive lighting Vehicle Bumper


68 mustang shock towers being fitted and then welded in.

Wheel Tire Automotive tire Vehicle Wood
 

·
I won a special award
Joined
·
8,953 Posts
If the 2 fuel pump mounting bolts are vertical,it is a 351C
Same thing is true for the 351M and 400M engines. 351M and 400M engines are externally identical to 351C engines with the exception of deck height and width.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
A C4 is a direct bolt up to a 351C.

I agree with Maxum.... if your "351" came from a '78-79 Bronco (the '66-77 Bronco never came with anything larger than a 302) then it's a 351M and that opens a whole new can of worms. For starters, the 351M has the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the 429-460, meaning you'll be looking for a 351M-400 or "385-series" C6 or truck manual transmission bellhousing. The next problem will be engine mounts... the 351M also used the 429-460 mounts, which means fabricating or adapting frame mounts. Lastly, with a deck height that's 1.1" more than a 351C, finding headers that will work will also be a challenge.

Since the engine compartments are pretty much identical from '67-70, a 351C can easily be installed in a '68 using '70 components.
Automotive tire Hood Tire Motor vehicle Tread

This is the only type of identification I got from him. Looks like original headers, would the header stamping have the engine type?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Horse, can you post a picture of the engine you got ? Something that shows the cylinderheads, and a shot of the bellhousing face. We'll tell you what it is. If it is a Cleveland or a Windsor, we'll know from looking. If by chance it is an M, ( likely ) we will help you choose what to do. There are many nice recipes with the M heads on a 289 / 302 block. And depending on the bell pattern(s), I know a guy who might want the block. LSG
I replyed to Woodchuck with the only identification I got from my buddy. Let me know if you can tell.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,281 Posts
Horse, awhtx is telling you straight. You have an FE of some sort. Might be a 352 or 360 from a pickup truck. Doesn't mean you can't use it, YOU CAN ! There are nice stroker kits available your 352 or 360 could be a 444. Take somemore pictures. YES, an FE will fit your 68 with the right set of mounts. LSG
 

·
I won a special award
Joined
·
8,953 Posts
Horse, awhtx is telling you straight. You have an FE of some sort. Might be a 352 or 360 from a pickup truck. Doesn't mean you can't use it, YOU CAN ! There are nice stroker kits available your 352 or 360 could be a 444. Take somemore pictures. YES, an FE will git your 68 with the right set of mounts. LSG
and a FE compatible transmission

and a new driveshaft

and a new rear axle

and a larger radiator

and FE motor mounts

and heavier duty front springs

and etc, etc, etc.......


To the OP, swapping from a 302 to a 351C would be a bit of a chore ( I did it on a 70 Mustang back in the 1980's). Swapping to a FE engine is even more work. Doable, but a lot has to be changed along with the associated cost. Putting a 352 or a 360 in a Mustang would be a mistake as they are low power truck motors designed for low rpm torque applications in heavy vehicles. Another FE issue with non-passenger car heads, is finding compatible exhaust manifolds for a Mustang, unless you do headers. FE engines were never put in Broncos. Someone is blowing smoke up your skirt claiming that motor is out of a Bronco.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grimbrand

·
Registered
Joined
·
310 Posts
Yep, that’s an FE. Expensive to swap in, but doable as it was a factory option. I would avoid it. Here are some prices for stuff that is FE only or required to swap an FE in. I have bought these items personally in the last 8 months for my 428/4sp swap:

Bellhousing, stock, $650; it was cheaper because it’s date coded for a 66 fairlane. They can be $850 fast for a nice one with the block plate.

Trans crossmember; $450

Top loader - the input shaft is different than the small block. Expect $2000 for a nice one that works.

9” rearend $850 complete. 8” rear need not apply, you’ll scatter it.

Headers - expect to pay $850 min. No $200 sets here, like the small block.

Those are just the minimum to start a discussion. You’ll be glad you did a small block instead.

I encourage you to stick with the car...you’ll find a combo that works, and you CAN do it. Welcome to the hobby!
 

·
Premium Member
68 Mustang Coupe
Joined
·
6,129 Posts
Lol an 8" will scatter at the mere mention of an fe.... or not.

To the op, with what appears to be your limited knowledge I'd stick with a windsor. They're cheaper, easier to find, easier to find aftermarket parts for way more people have experience with them etc....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,596 Posts
This sounds like the perfect application for a junkyward GT40P engine from a 97-up Explorer/Mountaineer. Swap all the parts over from the 289 and bolt her in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
532 Posts
Time to turn this project around. When you are just starting out in the learning curve, you need to know what you have, what will work, how much money and time it will take to accomplish your goals. If you start out not knowing what engine you have... this will go down the rabbit hole quickly. Start over, get a 351 as intended originally and go from there. Best of luck with the learning curve.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top