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Discussion Starter #1
Would like everyones opinion, experience, thoughts on cost ,performance etc. Thinking about dropping one of these in a 68 GT. How much more is the Cleveland? can I get the bang for my buck with the windsor?
 

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i would go winsor aftermarket heads> STock headed and eveything the clevland has more peformance potential.But the windsor can be built up to make all the power you need as long as you upgrade the heads and if thats not enough you can always stroke it for more. plus im sure how much but windsor is easier on changing plugs and is a lighter block. But i will say those big massive valve covers look pretty dam cool when you see a clevland and you tell someone you have a 351 c in it the aww is more impressive
 

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Clevelands are heavier and have had less development than the W. Which can be stroked to 427+. I don't think there is much to debate about. how many fuel injected clevelands have you seen?/ Gary
 

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I've seen aftermarket windsor heads that have canted valves so it makes the choosing even easier. go with the cheaper windsor.
 

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The W is cheaper, and easier to work on. But you'll get those nutjobs like Nick (DTstang) and Jim (CantedValve) who are coco-for-Clevelands.
 

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I as well would choose the W over the C for cost reasons, fit and the parts that are available for the W is greater. It's also my understanding that the oiling system on the W is far better for RPM's than the C. The C motors need to be worked on for better oiling. Slap some Trick Flow heads on it and go.

Does any one have the flow numbers of a 2V C motor? That would be nice to have to compare flow numbers to the after market W heads.
 

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The W is cheaper, and easier to work on. But you'll get those nutjobs like Nick (DTstang) and Jim (CantedValve) who are coco-for-Clevelands.
And then you get those nut-jobs that cant tell a 302 from a 351W *COUGH*L20068*COUGH*

Actually, when you look at the main "hop-ups" done to a stock engine... did you know you dont have to drain the cooling system to change an intake on a Cleveland? Gosh... that must make an intake swap on a Cleveland... easier!

There isnt anything "hard" about working on a Cleveland. Same rules apply to a C as any other engine. I really dont know what orifice you pulled that outta, but from the smell of it...
 

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If you want something easy, go with a W. They have a world of aftermarket parts (because they need it), and they are so plentiful you can use it for a boat anchor and it will probably GAIN value.

If you want something that will build power, and still LOOK like it came from Ford, go with a Cleveland. Even with its "antiquated" canted valve heads, they can produce upwards of 350-400 HP with as little as a cam, intake, rockers, and carb. To get 350-400 HP from a W, you HAVE to get aftermarket heads. Clevelands came with the right heads. If you REALLY WANT aftermarket heads, there are some aluminum aftermarkets available for the C.

Keep this in mind. Companies used to make parts to bolt Cleveland heads onto a Windsor block (because they stopped making Cleveland blocks), but I have never heard of anyone foolish enough to TRY to bolt Windsor heads onto a Cleveland block.

Your choice.
 

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Actually, the only reason mine wont START is because of the STARTER that goes with the AOD that goes behind WINDSOR style engines.

Dodge's isnt running because he trusted the wrong people.

Keep talking Kelvinator boy!!
 

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Well....for 450 miles my 351c put out just under 300 HP at the rear wheeels with 7 cylinders, cracked heads, and diesieling from over 12.5:1 compression.

A windsor would have fallen apart long before then.


All joking aside, if you do the math, you make more HP from a C for the same $$ input. But like I tell everyone, if you already have one or the other, it will be cheaper for you to build that one.
 

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J/K you guys - I know, it's no fair to kick a guy when he's down! ::

BTW, I've had several of each - both 2V and 4V. It's all apples & oranges - yeah you can compare both until you're blue, but it all comes down to personal preference! ;)
 
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I'll put my money on the C! Sure it costs more, but like previously stated, it takes FEWER parts to reach 400HP and it can be done with ORIGINAL Ford parts. Slap on a set of Australian Cleveland heads (2V port size w/4V chamber size) and BOOM you get 10.5 to 11:1 without even changing the pistons! Sure you can put EFI on the W, but who wants the hassle. Talk to the boys over at Ford-Trucks.com. They can tell you everything you need to know about these motors. Quite a few guys there running 400+HP Clevelands, one is even pushing 900HP. The oil problems you say???The problem doesnt start until you get over 5000RPM. Even then its a easy fix. Its your choice, but do the reseach for yourself before you decide.

EDIT: I havent found flow numbers yet, but here are some comparisons of the two. NOTE the HUGE port sizes and valves of the Clevelands.

Numbers in this order: CC,Intake Valve, Exhaust Valve, Intake port, Exhaust port

351W ('69 Hi-Perf) 4V 58 cc 1.84" 1.54" 1.94 x 1.76" 1.24 x 1.00"
351W ('69-'76) 2V 60 cc 1.84" 1.54" 1.94 x 1.76" 1.24 x 1.00"
351W ('7:cool: 2V 69 cc 1.84" 1.54" 1.94 x 1.76" 1.24 x 1.00"


351C ('70-'73) 2V (Open) 74-77 cc 2.04" 1.67" 2.02 x 1.65" 1.84 x 1.38"
351C ('70-'71) 4V (Closed) 62.8 cc 2.19" 1.71" 2.50 x 1.75" 2.00 x 1.74"
351C (HO & CJ) 4V (Open) 74-77 cc 2.19" 1.71" 2.50 x 1.75" 2.00 x 1.74"
351 Austrailian 2V (Closed) 62.8 cc 2.04" 1.67" 2.02 x 1.65" 1.84 x 1.38"
351/400M 2V (Open) 74-77 cc 2.04" 1.67" 2.02 x 1.65" 1.84 x 1.38"

Stryder
 

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If you want something easy, go with a W. They have a world of aftermarket parts (because they need it), and they are so plentiful you can use it for a boat anchor and it will probably GAIN value.
If you want something that will build power, and still LOOK like it came from Ford, go with a Cleveland. Even with its "antiquated" canted valve heads, they can produce upwards of 350-400 HP with as little as a cam, intake, rockers, and carb. To get 350-400 HP from a W, you HAVE to get aftermarket heads. Clevelands came with the right heads. If you REALLY WANT aftermarket heads, there are some aluminum aftermarkets available for the C.

Your choice.
Only 567 hp with stock heads. Keep buying those expensive windsor heads and I'll keep saving my money!!!!
 

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Uhhh... you arent talking to me are you? I am all over C engines with stock heads. I was merely stating that aftermarket heads were out there...
 

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HAH HAH HAH! See what you did?!? You've turned them all on each other! Everyone knows the Cleveland is better! :: Just kiddin' guys :p

Seriously though, I've only driven two Mustangs in my life, my bro's 72 with the 302 and my 73 with the Cleveland. When both engines were stock the difference was extremely noticeable! Then, my bro got his exhaust system set up, a 4v Edelbrock carb and intake and I still feel my car (still stock) has more ba!!s. Could be that I just like mine better so I might be a bit bias, but then again, maybe I'm not. ::

PS: You should make a search on this as it has been discussed several times.
 

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As you can see, this is the eternal debate. You can satisfy your need for speed with either one if you build it right. I went with a Cleveland because I am building a 'what if' restomod of a 69 Boss 351 (which of course was never made) and the Cleveland gives it that Boss mystique, IMO. My stock-stroke 351 isn't even together & in the car yet, and I've already got my beady little eyes on a 408 stroker shortblock when the money allows...

Doug
 

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Yep...eternal debate....

I've commented in these debates before, but I'm the kind of guy that puts his money where his mouth is.

See the nick? I didn't make it up, I earned that....

all on a stock 351C-4V motor with headers and an itty-bitty 214/224 @ .050 P.A.W. cam, 71 f-back, 3800lbs w/me....try that with a stock headed windsor...AHHHHAAHAHAHAHAHAH...NOT!

Seriously..

Windsor= station wagon motor

:p
 
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