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Discussion Starter #1
After some research I bought the Tenhulzen Auto 3300 2-Wheel Alignment System all-in-one Tool (Camber/Caster/Toe Plates). Does not require turn plates but I have the wheels on some plastic with grease and they turns easy (especially with EPAS on!!)

I can easily adjust toe and camber and those numbers make sense but caster seems way out of whack from stock. All suspension parts are new (and stock replacement type parts) except the spindles I re-used and I have the CSRP front disc brake setup.

I have tried caster with no shims at all and also various shim stacks to get camber numbers anywhere from -3.5 to about 0 degrees camber. I keep getting anywhere from 3 to 5 degrees caster on both wheels but the service manual says +/-1 degree caster though I see most people say to go much higher with newer tires. But if I have stock type parts then how in the world can I have 3 to 5 degrees caster when based on the manual that should be impossible with 1/16" max shim stack difference?

My method is 20 degrees wheel turned in, gauge vertical and zero out. Turn wheels 20 degrees out and take reading and multiply times 2 for caster.
 

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When you start to add shims for caster the arm no longer sits flat against the shims. Possible with enough shims for additional caster it could possibly be enough that when you tighten the control arm bolts, you could possibly bend or deflect the shaft where it no longer works smoothly. If you look in a good suspension book they'll tell you the shim or spacer to me machined at a angle so the shaft sits dead flat. Is this the case with what Ford is saying, who knows? It's mostly a guess on my part in a extreme case. More then likely it's Ford's way of imposing their will and thoughts on you to keep it driving the same. Keep in mind these weren't precision built cars by a long shot. They were thrown together as fast as possible with a lot of tolerance for quick assembly.

So set caster and camber to what you want and don't worry.
 

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Not sure sure the 2X multiplier comes in. Maybe that’s a tool specific factor. Certainly not on the Longacre tool though. Anyway, I’d shoot for 3-4 positive caster, 1-2 negative camber for a street car. Look at Opentracker recommendations. John’s are a little less aggressive.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yes the instructions for the kit say to multiply by 2. I have not thought through the math on that.
One thing that I am wondering is if I may have the wrong spindles or other parts. When the wheels are pointed straight ahead the UCA ball joint center line is quite a bit forward of the LCA ball joint center line. If I place my digital angle unit on the spindle in line with the UCA/LCA I get about 4.5 degrees. If I understand caster correctly, this means I have 4.5 degrees negative caster as the UCA is ahead of the LCA (closer to front of car). This is with no shims at all. I would have expected the UCA/LCA to be almost vertical to the floor with stock setup.
 

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Probably not. Your frame has probably moved a lot in 50+ years. You are using new suspension parts right? At any rate, positive caster will have the wheel center ahead of the steering center. Visualize a front wheel on a grocery cart.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Probably not. Your frame has probably moved a lot in 50+ years. You are using new suspension parts right? At any rate, positive caster will have the wheel center ahead of the steering center. Visualize a front wheel on a grocery cart.
Trying not to over analyze but I am missing something. See pics. This to me shows negative caster. In this pics there are no shims installed and the UCA bolts are tight.

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Discussion Starter #8
that looks like a pretty harsh angle on the ball joint / UCA as if half of a UCA drop was done
Here are a couple more pics from my archive. I did not do the UCA drop (I know now I probably should have). I just don't get why I have such a large negative caster

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Discussion Starter #10
what strut rods/bushing are you using , it could be the LCA is to far back ?
Stock non adjustable strut rods with new rubber bushings, torqued at the moment to 45 ft/lbs. I did not replace the strut rods so I assume they are original.

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Discussion Starter #12
bent spindle ?
I thought that but both the left and right are the same, meaning negative caster and both about the same offset. Spindles are C5DA-3108B left and the right I can't make out all the letters, but I can make out 5D-10, so I am assuming it is C5DA-3107.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Here are a couple I dug up of driver side before tear down. This was a V8 conversion by who know who and who knows when. These show obvious negative camber. There are shims in these pics and more looks to be 1/8" or so more in the front bolt

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I think maybe why it looks caca in the photo of just the spindle has somewhat due to anti-dive angle of the upper arm, the suspension extended and negative caster, meaning no shims.

I'm not familiar with using the Tenhulzen but it should work pretty much the same as my Longacre spindle mount bubble. You can't measure caster directly. You do it indirectly or basically by triangulation after finding 2 of the 3 angles. The only way to directly measure caster is by making a tool to attach to the grease fittings on the upper and lower ball joint. So with my Longacre I need two 20° angles for turn in a s turn out of the wheel. What's nice about the Longacre is the end has a 140° which gives the two 20° angles that I can sight up to a line drawn on the floor parallel to the tire. So with the wheels straight, on the left side I turn the wheel to the left 20° and adjust the gauge to read 0°. Now I turn the wheels to 20° to the right. Now the gauge gives the caster angle. See if that works. The right side, turn the wheels to the right first, set gauge then turn left 20° and read the caster.
 

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I can't tell from your pics or text, but the fully assembled car weight must be on the wheels to get a proper alignment. All of your pics show an unloaded suspension, which don't help. Because of the anti dive angle, the upper ball joint moves forward when it droops. Your suspension needs to be at ride height to set your alignment. You probably know all this, just checking.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I can't tell from your pics or text, but the fully assembled car weight must be on the wheels to get a proper alignment. All of your pics show an unloaded suspension, which don't help. Because of the anti dive angle, the upper ball joint moves forward when it droops. Your suspension needs to be at ride height to set your alignment. You probably know all this, just checking.
Are the engine/trans in the car?
Yes, the motor/trans are in the car and all my alignment checks today were with the wheels on the ground. Photos of course do show the suspension hanging. I understand the anti dive, but even with the wheels on the ground, I have a ~4.5 degree angle on the spindle with the UCA forward of the LCA. Jut trying to figure out if I have a "parts" problem I need to resolve with the negative caster built in to the set-up. According to the Ford manual caster specs, I should have the UCA and LCA centerlines aligned nearly vertically for near 0 caster.

Here is a link to the instructions for the Tenhulzen kit I am using.
https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/tnh-3300_us.pdf
 

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I'd say to check your strut rod bushings. It really appears to me that the LCA is too far back judging from the photos that I took of mine when I was rebuilding my suspension.
20190204_154354.jpg
 

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Have you checked that your upper Control arm shafts are centered left to right and the same on both sides? Most new arms are not assembled with consistent centering of the shafts. You want to ensure they are centered or slightly off center for more caster. Opentracker racing has some details on his website. From your pics, it looks as though you have some quality parts, so perhaps you already have blueprinted upper control arms.

James
 

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Do you know your UCA shafts are centred? Did you deliberately offset them?
Ending up with a left and right arm, then put them on the wrong side?
 
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