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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good morning VMF -
First post here - there seems to be a wealth of knowledge and helpful ideas on this forum.

I own a 68 coupe that was completely resurrected from the dead back in 1992 - 1996.
The original engine was a 302 that sat in a field years without heads or intake or a hood - in other words, a boat anchor.
So I got a 289 from a 65 coupe and rebuilt it - in 1994 -
block bored .30 over - one sleeve - new pistons - crank resurfaced
Melling high volume oil pump - original driveshaft with proper retaining clip in place
Heads redone by Doug's Speed Shop
New cam from Ford Motorsports - hydraulic lifters from Sealed Power thru Summit
Edelbrock Performer intake, 500 cfm carb, headers
Was an auto trans swapped to 4 speed - flywheel from junkyard ( not positive but I think an early 70's pickup truck or Bronco )- resurfaced
Reused original harmonic balancer at that time

Ran it summers '96 thru 2013 - 28K total miles - just a summer daily driver - no racing
replaced several freeze plugs on both sides over the years - they rusted thru each time
It ran good and reliably that way all those years - started well - though it always seemed o run rich - swap to Mallory Unilite Ignition and coil - had different shops / friends help with tuning - never seemed to get that better

from 2005 - 2013 had a gradual progression of leaks all over - intake/ front cover/ water pump to front cover/ valve covers/ oil pan - entire underside of engine/ suspension/ bell/ tranny sopping w/ oil - I was parking it over a large aluminum foil pan to catch dripsSo at end of 2013 driving season (upstate NY) I popped another freeze plug and parked it and never got around to it again til this year-

So in June this yr -
1) pulled oil pain and rear main cap and replaced rear main seal - some wear, but nothing bad - no metal in pan, just dirty oil, pump screen looks good I did not check any other main caps or rod caps - I did check and re-torque all main cap bolts - I did NOT re-torque rod caps - install NEW OIL PAN - stamped steel $80 pan - looks identical to old pan -
2) replaced water pump - same style
3) had 1 long bolt seized in aluminum front cover - had to drill it out of front cover - did not mangle front cover - only slight ovaling of the hole - nothing affecting threads in block -
4) inspected timing chain and gears - some deflection in chain ( double roller type chain ) but not bad - fuel pump eccentric tight and in good shape - re-installed w/ new harmonic balancer from Summit $70
5) pull intake manifold - bead blast and re-install w/ correct gaskets - glued down the cork end seals - little RTV at corners - I know there is a ton of discussion on all sides of this issue
6) pull valve covers / strip and repaint - flattened lip for new gaskets
7) clean and rebuild carb
8) boil and repaint radiator - new hoses
9) new wires - plugs all light tan and still gapped properly

primed oil pump with drill - yes, counterclockwise - yes, rotating crank with 15/16" socket on front of engine multiple positions each time a minute and the drill would bog down considerably

went to start - and got nothing -good spark but no fuel - test fuel pump with hose in bottle of gas at bottom and pumping into hose into empty bottle at the top and get nothing - torn diaphragm - so replaced it with Advance Auto - Carquest brand - stamping on body says Spectra - arm looks identical - except no spring under the pump arm like on the broken one
- test it with the bottles and crank engine with coil disconnected - yeah ! I have fuel now ! - make my connections and start it -

it runs good for the first 30 seconds - I was keeping idle high(~2000) - and then I hear a loud knocking starting to come - I fluttered the gas pedal and it went away for ~3-5 seconds and then came back and got louder and steadier - I'm thinking the worst and shut it down - then I called my buddy and ran it ~90" for him on the phone - loud consistent knocking - shut it down - but he couldn't be sure about it over the phone - so we talked about possibilities - ?rod bearing / ?oil pump failure / ?lifter tick / ? fuel pump arm on eccentric ? - and hour later I went down again and restarted it and recorded the video below - unfortunately this site doesn't work with my formatting, so I posted it at Youtube - hopefully you can copy and paste and it will play -

search "Ford 289 knock" - video is 31 seconds

the next day I dropped the pan and checked oil pump - driveshaft in place - removed oil pump and it spins by hand and oil comes out the top - removed and checked all rod bearings- they have wear and some contamination grooving, but I could not get any of them to wiggle up/down or side/side on the crank journals - retorqued to 22 ft. Lbs, - at the top end I felt all the lifter/pushrods to see it they are in the middle of their lifter travel - I did this by rotating the engine by hand to each cylinders firing position (rotor pointing at spark plug position on distributor cap - yes, set TDC on compression stroke by thumb in spark plug hole method) and push down on each rocker at pushrod end to feel if the spring in the lifter was still working - on all except #8 Intake and Exhaust I get ~3/8" of spring play - on #8 I get nothing - I can spin the pushrods, but I can't feel any spring give and I can't lift the rocker up away from the pushrod or the pushrod up from the lifter either - I looked at the travel of each valve and they all appear to be the same - the amount of thread visible at each rocker stud appears the same as well - so I am confused about this discrepancy

I ordered a new Carter fuel pump and compared it to the Carquest/Advance Auto one and also to my old one (from 1994 rebuild) - the old one is stamped Carter and #65883F08A on the body and has an extra spring under the arm that is not there on either of the newer ones - when I put each of them in a vise and press down on the arm the old one takes significantly more pressure to move it thru its range and both of the newer ones have more slop/play in them -

I am wondering what any of you think about the cause of my knock / the possibility it is from the fuel pump arm/ and feelings on switching to an Edelbrock or Holley fuel pump
I really don't want to remove my intake manifold / change the lifters if I don't have to - I want to drive this thing this summer!!

Thanks for reading my post -

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Ha - looks like the video url didn't work
include MXTP4988 and Mike in your search

Mike
 

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Video is MIA.

I am bringing back a long term storage Mustang that had a similar knock when turning the engine over for a compression check. I pulled the valve covers and started with a series of daily ATF baths down the push rod holes hoping that a sticking or collapsed lifter might be at the root of the noise. After a week, I added the cylinders to the ATF bath regimen for a couple of more days. At that point I turned the engine over with a remote starter button while watching the pushrods and lifters in action. By the time oil was seeping out of the rocker arms and the pushrods began rotating, the knock had disappeared. Time will tell if the problem has been solved.

Good Luck with your project.
 

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I replaced my fur pump about a year ago with an advance auto pump, it made a bad knocking sound, I removed it, inspected it, reinstalled it thinking I have bigger problems than a fuel pump, noise went away fairly quickly after that and fuel pump works fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Video is MIA.

I am bringing back a long term storage Mustang that had a similar knock when turning the engine over for a compression check. I pulled the valve covers and started with a series of daily ATF baths down the push rod holes hoping that a sticking or collapsed lifter might be at the root of the noise. After a week, I added the cylinders to the ATF bath regimen for a couple of more days. At that point I turned the engine over with a remote starter button while watching the pushrods and lifters in action. By the time oil was seeping out of the rocker arms and the pushrods began rotating, the knock had disappeared. Time will tell if the problem has been solved.

Good Luck with your project.
Thanks for the reply - once I get the bottom buttoned up again I will definitely be turning it over with valve covers off for visual confirmation of oiling at all rockers/pushrods.

try this link for the video

or in the youtube window search "MXTP4988 Mike" and hopefully it will come up

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I replaced my fur pump about a year ago with an advance auto pump, it made a bad knocking sound, I removed it, inspected it, reinstalled it thinking I have bigger problems than a fuel pump, noise went away fairly quickly after that and fuel pump works fine.
That sounds like a good resolution for your knocking -

do you recall if your Advance Auto fuel pump had the extra spring visible between the bottom of the pump body casting and running up to the underside of the pump arm ?
Mine from Advance Auto does not, and neither does the one I got thru Amazon (though it is a Carter and in a brand new Carter box). I am thinking the parts companies are all supplied by one manufacturer and that they no longer make the pumps with the extra spring. My theory is that is causing the arm to float off and on the eccentric causing the knock.

Mike
 

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If I recall correctly it was a Carquest branded pump and it did not have a visible spring, that replaced a 10 year old, maybe older, Carter which did not have a visible spring either.
 

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One other thing I'd like to mention - you said you have a high-volume oil pump? Well, since you already bought it and put it in, might as well keep it, but be *sure* to put in a hardened ARP pump rod. I had a factory rod twist itself and pop out of the socket on a Cougar that had its oil lamp disconnected (Didn't know about either of those issues until it was far too late). It still started and ran great, but blew a lot of smoke out the breathers. When I tore it down, the bearings were riding on top of each other. The oil looked like metalflake paint.



I would not be afraid to add some kerosene to the oil and let it idle up to temp before doing an oil change either, if it's been sitting for a long time. That will help dissolve sludge and free up any sticky lifters, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Just wanted to update my findings - I decided to replace my Advance Auto purchased - Carquest brand - fuel pump with a Carter rebuildable fuel pump that I found on eBay - this one does have the extra spring under the pump arm and feels significantly more stout. I also did the ATF bath down the pushrod holes as mentioned by JeffTepper above. Replaced the oil pump with a Ford aluminum body oil pump just cause I was in there again. I put a quart of ATF in with 4 quarts of oil for this run in period. Plan is to drain and swap filter after 100 miles, and refill with 5 quarts oil. I primed the oil pump with the valve covers off and visually confirmed oil drooling out the top of each rocker arm. Then I buttoned it up and started it - My noise was still there but not as quite as loud. I ran the engine for 25 minutes to let it heat up - confirmed thermostat open and top radiator hose got nice and hot -temp gauge not working but oil pressure gauge shows good oil pressure. I took a 2 ft. long dowel and used it like a stethoscope and could localize my knocking noise to cylinder #4 - louder on the header than on the valve cover. The knocking noise stayed the entire time.

So now I'm thinking a stuck lifter causing the knocking noise, but maybe the ATF and the longer runs to fully heat up the engine will clean the sludge out.

The next 2 days I ran it 25 minutes in garage each day - and the noise was gone - I dialed in my timing and adjusted the carb - bled the brakes - fiddled around with my temp gauge (ordered a new sending unit).

Today I started it and I could hear (but not see and not feel) a header leak on the passenger bank which got better after a few minutes (? as the headers heated up the metal expanded and ? ) as well as the slight lifter tick on #4.

I guess I'll wait and see what it does next - tighten rocker arm on #4 if it doesn't go away - ? header gasket ? or new headers ? Anyway, it's much better - thanks for the feedback-

Mike
 

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If it got much fainter, Brex, then get out and drive it. Heat cycles, getting fresh oil to loosen up the sludge, etc instead of just sitting there idling, will do it some good. Sticky lifters are very common for engines that've been sitting a while. Since you've made sure it's sending oil to the places it needs to, and (assuming) you have changed it at least once, you should be good.

You've got simple options:

1) Tear it down because you think you might have a problem. If it doesn't end up being serious, then you will spend a lot of work and money for nothing, but at least you'll have a clear conscience.

2) Drive it and see if it gets worse. If it does, then you can go back to #1. If it fails catastrophically, then you can do #1 and spend the money knowing that you are not wasting it. But if you're lucky, it'll be fine, and you can just enjoy it!

If you're really planning to do something like long road trips, or daily the thing, you might lean more toward #1, but I think if I were you, I'd probably go with option 2. You're aware of the problem, and as long as you pay attention, it's not likely to do anything too horrible. When you change your oil, be sure to use one that has ZDDP in it, or put your own in. It's critical for cars with flat tappet cams.
 
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