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Ok, this is after the fact news, but, may help someone in the future. I too, have Hagerty for a number of my vehicles both 4 and 2 wheel. I recently added my '08 XK-R and was given the option, for a few pennies more, to keep the car if "totaled". I would get the payout and ability to keep the wreck.
 

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I use to work at the World Headquarters of Hertz. I knew a lot of people there, it was great if I needed any type of advice. My wife was on a main road waiting for on coming cars to pass before making a left turn onto a side road. She was stopped with her blinker on. Once the cars passed she proceeded to make the left. There was a car at the stop sign that that pulled out to make a left as my wife was making a left and hit her. My wife was found to be at something like 25% at fault. So you ask how can she be at fault when she had the right of way and did everything correctly? What I was told was simple. The other person's insurance company just didn't want to pay. Simple as that. It would have cost more money for our insurance company to recover that 25% so they just settled. So basically it's probably going to be impossible to not be at any percentage at fault.
 

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I may just be piling on here, but seriously. Talk to a lawyer. It's free. For a case like yours you should be able to get them to take the case on contingency. The only thing you have to lose in this scenario is the 30 minutes you're on the phone with them. Plus you might not even have to pay lawyer fees as a lot of the time they'll roll that into the settlement with the other side.

As much as you might think you're being an ******* for going after this guy, you need to remember it's not him you're really suing. His rates are going up regardless. You're going after the huge corporation that's refusing to do what it said it would.
 

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Did you talk to Jake. he seems reasonable

but seriously it seems the OP has all the sound advise he needs. its up to him to make the decisions on what he wants to do
 

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Discussion Starter #45
Haha Yes I did talk to Jake (I guess he works for hagerty now- wife and I had a good laugh when 'jake" from hagerty called). I meant to ask him what he was wearing but I was still in shock over the wreck so it kinda got forgotten

Yes I have alot of good points- Thank you to everyone. I have reviewed the state law- yes in this state if its even 1% my fault I am outta luck- (and the insurance company gets to decide- so thats a big loophole they can use/abuse- and did)
Lawyer says you're fighting a big company with deep pockets and a team of lawyers- I can fight but you guessed it: it will cost me to chase it- so probably just wasting money that could be put on the car
Hagerty will cover the 22K but stamp title- since that seems to not be much of a concern for the board here I trust that is my way to go- I will push a little more on "buying the estimate down" and trying to get a different estimate (via trailer I guess) to preserve the virgin title- but I want to move forward since I have to finish a 65 coupe (and have alot of honey do projects around the new {to me} house.

I appealed the decision by snake harm- using facts and data off the police report- showing my speed, location, and that I had some where in the neighborhood of 1-1.5 seconds to react - they took around 3 hours to respond- (again w/o talking to their insured) Of course it was denied- I told him I figured that would be his answer- after all its his job to deny claims (then he hung up on me) LOL- (trying to keep humor - even though my gut wants to either cry or go physical on S.F.)

Side note: I did make a complaint to the NC insurance commissioner - it won't get me anything but i figured I could at least send some "love' back to Snake Harm Insurance Company for their troubles.

I guess if there is a parting wisdom: check your policy and consider pushing your value to the max you can afford (or live with if this happens to you)

Thanks again VMF- I needed the support and ideas- Will post back when I get her back out of the "horsepital"
 

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Yet another reason I hate State Farm. I dealt with them at American Family (where I was a vehicle damage appraiser) all the time.
This is a game to these people in the insurance business. If they can make money at it or maintain their mountains of money, all the better.
THAT'S HOW THEY LOOK AT IT. As you can probably guess, I got out of that line of work PDQ.
Now the advice..... your car's not "totalled." It's not even close, particularly in North Carolina, I would imagine. Out here in California, just
needing to paint it would probably total the car dollar-wise. Your "very good body shop who does 25K paint jobs" is not how I'd be valuing/
judging the real cost of this repair. It shouldn't be that bad.

I don't know about lawyering up on this one, unless you wanted to make a statement or the attorney representing you was working for you for free.
You already know you were too low on stated value and that's why you don't have that avenue. No reason to beat that dead horse.
I say that you fix it yourself. You're not going to win at the game being "played." (contributory negligence in the accident is probably BS in this
situation..... by the way. The guy "went for it" without being able to guarantee no one was close enough to constitute a hazard)
 

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I should have mentioned in the previous post that when I accepted my car for the value, it did not get tagged as "salvage".
 

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I may just be piling on here, but seriously. Talk to a lawyer. It's free. For a case like yours you should be able to get them to take the case on contingency. The only thing you have to lose in this scenario is the 30 minutes you're on the phone with them. Plus you might not even have to pay lawyer fees as a lot of the time they'll roll that into the settlement with the other side.

As much as you might think you're being an *** for going after this guy, you need to remember it's not him you're really suing. His rates are going up regardless. You're going after the huge corporation that's refusing to do what it said it would.
Since when it free to talk to a lawyer? They typically want a $500 retainer to acknowledge your existence. Oh, yeah, the Ambulance Chaser lawyers on TV say they offer a free consultation. But an actual lawyer for other legal work talking for free? Don't count on it.
 

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Since when it free to talk to a lawyer? They typically want a $500 retainer to acknowledge your existence. Oh, yeah, the Ambulance Chaser lawyers on TV say they offer a free consultation. But an actual lawyer for other legal work talking for free? Don't count on it.
When my tenant did $5000 in damage to my floors on the way out I had a consult with a lawyer. He did it for free, and over the phone. We ended up not pursuing it, but he gave me advice on what steps would follow if I decided it was worth the time/effort/money. He wasn't an ambulance chaser or anything like that, just specialized in that area of law.
 

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Seems to me you don't have State Farms attention. As other have mentioned, perhaps an attorney consult is necessary. Before I did that though, I'd call them again and request claim number and address to send the medical bills. Now you'll have their full attention.
 

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Everything I just read HERE points to you having a chance of winning against State Farm and the Driver who caused the accident:

Where there traffic cams at that area or intersection? If so, pursue the State for the footage, many States have a link or you can call your local Town for direction on how to get copies of that footage by giving them date/time info.

You have a Police Report, you prob have witness statements and you have their Driver admitting fault (did he also write in his report he made a u-turn and was at fault)? That is a slam dunk IMO that your claim is legit and should be paid by State Farm.

Why just give in and let them win? You weren’t at fault, not even “1%” at fault - that’s just BS.

————————————————————

The salvage title concern is only a concern IF your future plans were to sell that car to pad your nest egg or add the proceeds to your retirement fund.

The bigger question now is, if you do fix the car and you’re keeping it with Hagerty, are they going to allow you to up the Agreed Value to “$42k” since they will have on record it’s been in a prior accident, title was branded salvage and they paid out.

Not sure how it works with a Classic pre-17 digit VIN, but it’s my understanding once an Insurance Company brands a title as Salvage (wreck, flood, natural disaster or theft). that title or VIN is forever branded and that “history” stays with the vehicle (until it gets to a title washing agency)... I know pre-17 digit VINs are not searchable via any of the common VIN Reporting apps/agencies, so it would only be known it was in an accident or had a salvage title when a buyer would try to insure it.
 

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I'll add one thought to @Cobra-Jet 's link. In order to be contributorily negligent you must first be negligent, i.e., you must be doing something wrong or you failed to do something to prevent the accident when you had the chance. In the two examples in the attorney piece the driver was doing something wrong: one speeding and the other running a yellow light. You weren't doing anything wrong, nor did you fail to take appropriate action.
From a practical point, if you can't get Haggerty to not "stamp" the title for a reduced payout then you have to weight the cost of an attorney against the "value" of a good title. That's a personal decision you must make.
 
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So i had a crash recently-(person whipped a uturn in front of me- less than one second to react before impact)- I have hagerty-(agreed value 25K) he had state farm- Naturally State Farm doesn't want to cover (in my state if they (ins) attribute even one percent to me they dont have to pay).Police Dept wont' assign fault they leave it up to ins- Other driver admits fault. State Farm says 5% my fault so too bad for me- Hagarty will pay for the crash but wants to total car (meaning stamp the title salvage/rebuilt- and I keep it) Estimate to repair is 22k. (I took it to a very good body shop who does 25K paint jobs)

I really don't want to let this car go- I want to keep this care but don't want a salvage title due to financial impact down the road-

the damage is - L front- needs grill and assoc parts, L fender, L door and hood/valance, windsheild, radiator support and radiator, and the Left front inner fendor apron- but all gaps everywhere including cowl are good. Estimate included painting the car except for deck lid- There is a possibilty L frame rail may need to be pulled down but may not- we haven't measured it but it was put on the estimate-

Hagarty Adjuster said I should have valued car at 40-42k- so this the real issue- It wouldn't be financially totalled if I had upped coverage. In NC the wording is if the insurance pays out more than FAIR MARKET VALUE- its totalled- Fair market per their adjuster is 40-42. But agreed value is 25k (which again is my bad- but I never thought it would be me, and I didn't keep up with market value since its not for sale)

So I have 2 choices that I need some opinions on-
1- Let Hagarty pay the bill and stamp title (I offered to "pay the estimate down'" so as not to total- or to buy parts (NPD) but they declined ) The car gets fixed and is worth less in my mind due to salvage title- 42 minus ??
2. Tell them to keep their money and fix it my self- (I figure I could let the shop put her on a frame machine- pay that if need be) and then buy parts and fix myself- I painted the car with a buddy the last time anyway- I have the tools, and skillset- Then the car is done w/o salvage title but I am out prob 10-k ( I think I can do for 5-6k in parts + paint/beer money)
3. Take the full 25k and walk away- (I just can't do this- its way to nice a car- and the wife and i really enjoy it)

I have seen a lot of stangs cut up and in bad shape w/o salvage titles- this car is rust free and was all original body panels- so I think salvage title is gonna scare people (no plans to sell anytime soon) hence my questions. Even with pics, I think it will be perceived as a cut-up monster

What says the board? What would you do?
I would say fix the car and a little insight as you will have to stand your ground in most states the vehicle code state as long as the present Owner keeps the car and feels its economical to do the repairs they cant salvage the title to the car- here in Calif its 544 A of the vehicle code ( pretty sure that's the number- if needed I will re-look it up) The only reason the insurance does this as they are on the hook for any hidden repairs or damaged found later- so they salvage the car and they're off the hook this way.

I actually have had 3 cars that I repaired and I wouldn't let them salvage the title. I had 1 car that the estimate was over 10k FOR REPAIRS, I SETTLED IN SMALL CLAIMS FOR $8500 since insurance Co said I would be paid within 7 days- which I was.
about 9 months after I got rear-ended ( minor bumper issue) estimate was $2900.00 the same insurance Co but a different office, I told the adjuster that if any paperwork was sent to DNV there would be legal litigation for trying to do a fraudulent act. I sued them and they lost and had to recoup paperwork and pay me $7K

So basically don't let any insurance Co bullshit you and try to salvage the title- they cant legally do it

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Small update:
Hagarty has discussed MAYBE giving me the payout w/o stamping title- but they are going back and forth- and no definitive answer yet

Snake Harm- called me yesterday- now they have decided it is 100% the other guys fault- so they will proceed with estimate/fixing car- They offered me a rental (I asked for a mustang convert- but obviously thats not gonna happen) We shall see what they value car at...
Not sure what changed their mind-
1. Other driver talked to them and convinced them it was all his fault
2. Insurance Commission called them and they decided they didn't want that can of worms esp in election year
3. Prayers
 

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Small update:
Hagarty has discussed MAYBE giving me the payout w/o stamping title- but they are going back and forth- and no definitive answer yet

Snake Harm- called me yesterday- now they have decided it is 100% the other guys fault- so they will proceed with estimate/fixing car- They offered me a rental (I asked for a mustang convert- but obviously thats not gonna happen) We shall see what they value car at...
Not sure what changed their mind-
1. Other driver talked to them and convinced them it was all his fault
2. Insurance Commission called them and they decided they didn't want that can of worms esp in election year
3. Prayers
So happy to hear that!! Keep fighting the good fight. God bless.

Chris
 

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Haha Yes I did talk to Jake (I guess he works for hagerty now- wife and I had a good laugh when 'jake" from hagerty called). I meant to ask him what he was wearing but I was still in shock over the wreck so it kinda got forgotten

Yes I have alot of good points- Thank you to everyone. I have reviewed the state law- yes in this state if its even 1% my fault I am outta luck- (and the insurance company gets to decide- so thats a big loophole they can use/abuse- and did)
Lawyer says you're fighting a big company with deep pockets and a team of lawyers- I can fight but you guessed it: it will cost me to chase it- so probably just wasting money that could be put on the car
Hagerty will cover the 22K but stamp title- since that seems to not be much of a concern for the board here I trust that is my way to go- I will push a little more on "buying the estimate down" and trying to get a different estimate (via trailer I guess) to preserve the virgin title- but I want to move forward since I have to finish a 65 coupe (and have alot of honey do projects around the new {to me} house.

I appealed the decision by snake harm- using facts and data off the police report- showing my speed, location, and that I had some where in the neighborhood of 1-1.5 seconds to react - they took around 3 hours to respond- (again w/o talking to their insured) Of course it was denied- I told him I figured that would be his answer- after all its his job to deny claims (then he hung up on me) LOL- (trying to keep humor - even though my gut wants to either cry or go physical on S.F.)

Side note: I did make a complaint to the NC insurance commissioner - it won't get me anything but i figured I could at least send some "love' back to Snake Harm Insurance Company for their troubles.

I guess if there is a parting wisdom: check your policy and consider pushing your value to the max you can afford (or live with if this happens to you)

Thanks again VMF- I needed the support and ideas- Will post back when I get her back out of the "horsepital"
IK Dzahm - 1st what state do you live in???

The person you talked to is wrong as just take them to small claims court ( its $10K max here in Calif) and for fighting the Big so-called Insurance is BS, get to the adjuster as I did and talk to them about vehicle code section 544 A ( just copy & paste what I'm going to give you below.

I highlighted, changed bold type & color of verbiage- but I didn't change the language at all


Showing results for section 544 of vehicle code
Search instead for sevction 544 of vehicle code


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Featured snippet from the web
(a) A vehicle, other than a nonrepairable vehicle, of a type subject to registration that has been wrecked, destroyed, or damaged, to the extent that the owner, leasing company, financial institution, or the insurance company that insured or is responsible for repair of the vehicle, considers it uneconomical to repair ...


I gave this to American Modern which is huge and AAA in Calf & Ariz and the Co backed down after I should them the verbiage- stand your ground, ya maybe take a bit less- say 22K instead of $25K.

Please read above and digest the verbiage. all 3 adjusters agreed with me when I told them that if they salvage/clout my title as legal measure would follow shortly after salvaging the title. Again I'm 3 for in winning this battle + a small claims cases- so 4 for4
 

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Discussion Starter #58
North Carolina is the location-

At this point I am letting state farm estimate it- I wanna play nice unless it gets to that (previously they denied being responsible) When I talked to the lady yesterday I asked if they planned on playing the its a 69 so its worth 500$ or whatever and then trying to total it She stated " Oh no when it comes to classic cars we owe you to put it back the way it was to whatever level or condition it was in- and provide you with a rental if you need it" So we shall see- I suspect now that they admit responsibility I have a much better legal case for "harm done" if they don't want to compensate me. I guess their only real "out" would be to purchase me another mustang vert- in the same condition, options, etc (which sure ain't gonna happen for the 22k- cause I been looking around) So we will see- but thanks for the link- I hope they play nice and I don't need it- At this point the body shop is going to start tear down, and get parts (we are 1 hr from NPD charlotte) and hopefully by christmas we can have it all done- He even found a few things I didn't fix prior to paint before, and will fix those too- (Did I mention the Highland green 68 vert he is doing now? Its an S code- Its been there a year plus but is almost in paint- God Its beautiful!) Absolutely flawless- IDK- maybe the owner is on here- If so I apologize if I spoiled any "reveal"- I want to get photos when mine is done beside that one-
 

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I remember being taught that the driver behind is always responsible for allowing room/time to stop the car when needed. Since you were the car behind, you must assume some part of the responsibility. I'm only saying this because it is the way I was taught my responsibility when I learned to drive long ago. Anyway, I agree with the others that if your best deal ends up being the total then buy back, that financially you'll still be ahead to go this route then repair the car for much less than the 22K. If afterwards you don't like it due to the status on the title, sell the car then.
I normally would agree with your comment, however if the speed limit is 50 and you pull out in front of me and I can’t stop before rear ending you. I’m NOT at fault and before the cops show up I just might punch you in the face!
 

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Here there is a state mandated benchmark so the insurance won’t total for damage that could otherwise be fixed. Frame/unibody damage for that car would be listed as a total. At least here as it’s over 10 years old. Each state is different.

I don’t think $20k for a classic/custom specific shop is too far off the mark. For a car like that it’s likely a respray of the entire car to match. A collision shop won’t usually do that. There is probably 40/50 hours in R&R and metal labor @ $125/hr. Take the NPD price with shipping and add at least 20% to the price plus whatever sales tax your state charges. That‘s normal for a classic/custom shop, parts plus 20. Sometimes more. You got couple/few grand there in parts with markup. You could be at $10k parts and labor no paint or body for that corner.

Even if the car is largely a respray you’re probably $8-10k on paint and body at that shop seeing how they do $25k custom paint jobs. A name brand red could be close to a grand a gallon. It’s easy a couple/ few grand in material and consumables for paint and body alone. They’ll float and block the new parts, scuff and prime the rest and shoot the car then cut and buff. I don’t see you getting a high end job for under $10k even of the rest of the car needs no body work (which I’m ASSuming is in as good a shape as the pics indicate). Right there it’s easy $16-17k and probably closer to $20k for the whole job.
 
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