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Discussion Starter #1
I am now CONVINCED it is the radiator. I got the engine running today and just sitting in the garage it got up to 210 in about 5 minutes. The timing is set at 16 degrees advanced, the carb is tuned right.

After the engine warmed up to 210, the top and bottom of the radiator were hot...very hot, as well as everything else that was near the engine- everything... This is a northern aluminum radiator which, other than an electric fuel pump, is the only thing I have changed in my car.

So now....I am going to spend $200 for a stock 3 row radiator and try that. Also- as I posted earlier, my fuel pressure is only at 4.5 psi at idle- it goes to 5 psi at 2000 rpms- I still think this is not enough- could it be running lean? (but how- the carb is only 2 years old and it used to run fine).

Please...everyone please help! I now have $4k invested in another engine and it has not gotten me anywhere.

Also- if you stand behind the engine- in the airflow of the engine fan- the air is very hot- so the water in the radiator must be hot....

Some more info:

-Same results with or without shroud.
-Yes temp is accurate- I stuck a thermometer in the radiator while the engine was running.
-Edelbrock water pump does nothing different than stock pump.
-Antifreeze mixture is 25% to 75% of water (i've always been okay with any mixture in any other car)
-Timing at 14 and 16 advanced- both the same
-Box fan directly in front of car- did not help at all
-New Mr Gasket 180 t-stat
-Serpentine pulleys are stock size and stock rotation
-All hoses new
-Radiator and fuel pump are basically the only differences between this engine and the engine that I had 2 years ago which cooled fine.
-No there is no air in the system-
-Water just kind of forms "waves" in the radiator tank- it does not look like it is being "sucked" through the engine.
-Engine is 302 aluminum head long block from ford.
-Fuel pump is holley electric red
-Fuel regulator is not being used because I thought it was lowering the fuel pressure
-Carb is 1406 edelbrock tuned one step richer
-Fan is 17" flex fan-same one I have had for 2 years
 

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Keyword might be "New Engine"

I have a Northern Aluminum radiator and run very cool.

? Head gaskets put on backwards ? ::

Sure looks like it to me ::
 

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Discussion Starter #3
No this is a crate motor.

Old engine, which was rebuilt, ran at the same temp and the head gaskets were fine- I checked after I pulled it out of the car.
 

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Dude, its obvious. Break it down and you will see. Cooling is a function of moving things... Water needs to constantly move to transfer the heat away from the block, air needs to move to transfer the heat away from the radiator... Now lets see what you have...
1) the air SHOULD be hot behind the fan ( on the engine side) because it draws cool air from outside THROUGH the radiator and cools that way.
2) you water is not moving so either you have one or more things wrong in this department. You say its a new engine so I am sure its not blocked with rust etc.. It is either the water pump which you say is new or your thermostat which is also new. Did you test the "new" thermostat? Bet ya its bad or not opening enough. New thermostats are so cheaply made its wonder they work at all. LOOK AT THE MOTOR!! its obvious... Dont fall for the keys under the flat piece of paper deal ( you know.. when you are frantic and you look under a flat piece of paper on the table because you can't find your keys?) Your pulleys are fine. The radiator is fine all belts and hoses are fine.. Heck, next you will be blaming the radio for the overheating~! :: Take your thermostat out and test it in a pot of water and see how it opens.. make sure you use your thermometer to judge the temp of when it opens. Then when it fails.... Go and get a good one and TEST IT BEFORE YOU PUT IT IN THE ENGINE!

Good luck!
 

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Your engine is fine as far as fuel pressure. It will not run lean because of fuel pressure but because of fuel mixture. Not enough pressure will mean that the car starves for fuel and it will run poorly as if it was running out of gas ( which is it is if this were the condition)

Your timing in my opinion is set too high giving todays fuel and the engine you have. AT idle though you should be ok.... Try and set it back to about 10 degrees. This alone though shouldn't be too bad.

Your problems are all related to the fact that your coolant is not moving. The fan is doing its job. Don't waste your time with a new radiator. Its the thermostat..

Better yet... Take the thermostat OUT for a short time and see what it does. Might as well check to see if it was installed properly ( spring part towards the carb) Ill bet you dollars to donuts that it cools great BUT don't leave it out. You will never warm up and when you do, you might run hot again as the water will not have a chance to stay in the radiator long enough to get cooled down. Just do it as a test.
 

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Oh and one more thing... get rid of all that chrome... all it does is hold heat in. dark colors radiate heat and get rid of it much better... Why do you think they paint radiators black?
 

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I would bet on a thermostat also. It is the cheapest and easiest part to test so it should be the first thing looked at anyway. It defintely sounds like you have NO water flow. New doesn't mean anything when refering to thermostats. I check each one I before I install them in a pan of water on the stove using a candy thermometer to index them. I have had brand new ones refuse to open even when the water was boiling!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the info...

First off...Most everything on my engine is aluminum- there isnt very much chrome, except for,-alternator,thermostat housing, and air cleaner- headers are ceramic coated, brackets, pulleys, intake, valve covers, heads, water pump, ac compressor, etc., are all aluminum.

My goal with this engine was very little chrome.
As for the color of the engine- well it is one coat of red paint- which is on my brothers engine which doesnt go over 190.

Let me explain a few things:
2 years ago before my car was painted I used the same engine that I just removed- because of overheating it now overheats-although it never used to.

EVERYTHING is the same as 2 years ago EXCEPT-

The radiator
The fuel pump
The thermostat
The serpentine coversion kit

2 years ago the engine ran FINE....no overheating...ever-
Now 2 years later I buy the serpentine kit, the radiator, and switch to an electric fuel pump and everything goes wrong.

The current t-stat has the same results as the one that I used 2 years ago. I have to run the electric fuel pump because of issues with the power steering pump. The radiator is made by northern, it was only $300 (half the price of griffin, fluidyne, etc.), and It doesnt seem to be doing the job.

As for coolant flow, or clogs- well come on- 2 new motors, both have the same problem- it obviously isnt the engine (gasket, overbore,etc). Water pump- well it is an edelbrock only because I thought it was the problem- well no- same results as the stock water pump I used to have.

I will add a picture of my engine 2 years ago so you can see that there arent very many differences between now and then except for the radiator and the serpentine.

Just for the hell of it I will test the t-stat.
 

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You mentioned that the serpentine pulley system is new....no offense, did you get a reverse rotation water pump? If not you just found your problem, if you did I say the thermostat is the culprit.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Sorry I should have been more specific...

It is a serpentine conversion, which doesnt even deserve that name...It still uses 2 belts (better than three I guess). The kit includes all brackets and all pulleys, which are stock size. It uses the stock water pump- which is what I am using, and it also uses the stock timing cover, etc.

Also- I know it is okay because the air flow is going in the right direction.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ok here is a picture from 2 years ago- It NEVER even came close to running warm... http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_img_a/489897_4_full.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #12
So wait...let's just say it is lean-will it overheat all the time, or only at certain speeds, etc?

I have jetted the carb one step richer, but, this engine has 340 HP and the other one had around 250 or so.

And about water flow- I looked inside the radiator with the cap off...the water just makes waves and moves around- it doesnt exactly look like it is being flushed down the radiator.

You are probably right about the thermostat- We had a '50 ford pickup that did nothing but overheat- it turns out that it did not have a thermostat. Obvioulsy whether or not there is a t-stat they make a big difference.

Oh- the engine does not act as if it is starving for fuel- it runs great- very smooth and responsive.
 

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Also- I know it is okay because the air flow is going in the right direction
That doens't mean anything. That just means you're turning your water pump in the right direction for the fan that you have on the front of it. That doesn't mean you're turning the pump in the right direction for the impeller that's in it.

If you're sure that you have a standard rotation pump, and are turning it in the standard direction, then it's either you t-stat or radiator.

Here's a couple quick easy tests:


Pull the upper radiator hose off of the radiator. If the water pump is pumping in the right direction and the t-stat is working, it'll start pumping water out the upper hose BIG TIME, as soon as the t-stat opens (keep a garden hose turned on slowly and in the radiator fill neck). You can also check the flow of the radiator easily by removing the lower hose. Hold your hand tightly over the outlet and have a helper fill the radiator. Pull your hand off and see how fast the water drains out the outlet. The radiator should drain in about 4-5 seconds maximum, and should come GUSHING out.

Oh, and plan on replacing that chromed t-stat housing in the next year. I've tried about 4 different brands and types of chromed t-stat housings, and at most I've gotten about 1 year of life out of them before they start leaking. There's basically 2 types of chromed t-stat housings ... those that leak, and those that WILL leak. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The serpentine conversion uses the stock belt routing. The water pump is for a '65-'69 289/302, passenger side outlet, etc.

Since you have an Edelbrock carb, what are the signs of running lean? Is the engine going to overheat always?

What should water flow look like inside the top radiator tank? Looking inside the tank today just showed movement, it didnt really show downward flow.

Also- after running the engine, every nut, bolt, bracket, etc that was connected to the engine was very hot- as if there is poor circulation...is this a sign of running lean? It just seems as if the whole "engine" (block,heads,oil pan, valve covers, headers, tranny, etc.) gets hot. Plus-both radiator hoses are the same temp and they are too hot to touch for longer than a couple of seconds.. ::

Thanks again for your help...
 

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I don't think a lean situation at idle is causing your problem and the jetting of the carb has NO affect on idle mixture. If you have a diagnostic vacuum guage hook it up to the a manifold vacuum source and adjust the idle mixture screws on the carg until you have the highest idle and then you will know that the carb mixture is not your problem.

The flow of water in your radiator should be obvious and rather rigorous when the T-stat is open. Leave the cap off of the radiator and start the engine cold. Watch the water in the radiator as the engine warms up. It will be still when cold and you should se a big change when the T-stat opens. If the flow does not seem very significant when hot the T-stat may be opening only a small amount.

Once again....I really think it is the T-stat.
 

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Absolutely nothing you have stated will cause your engine to overheat i n your situation.... look at what you have changed then go from there. Your radiator is fine. It sits there doesn't do anything no moving parts it can't change itself and its new so its not clogged. oh wait a second.... Hmmm NO MOVING PARTS....,YOUR WATER IS NOT MOVING!!! all together now.... thermostat thermostat thermostat thermostat thermostat
 

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Its either air bound or the sensor for the temp is incorrect. A thermometer in the open throat of a radiator does not accurately reflect the true temp. The water route has air in it....
 
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