Vintage Mustang Forums banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

· Premium Member
Joined
·
7,218 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How would MCA view my Shelby if I were to put it all back to stock but relocate the battery to the trunk? Since they don't go by the SAAC registry, they have no idea of how my car came. Do they judge just by what was accurate for that year for Shelbys?

-bob
 
G

·
Most of the MCA Shelby judges are also SAAC judges. If the car was judged at MCA, it'd be a crap shoot whether or not the person judging your car would be critical of the battery location. To avoid any problems with this, just restore the car how it came. Nobody can argue then...
 

· Registered
Joined
·
8,058 Posts
Since 66's did not come with trunk mounted batteries, the trunk mounted batteries were different from the standard front mount battery and the rules call for the correct battery cables you would loose a number of points depending on your configuration.

Possible 9 or so points
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
7,218 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well, then how about wheels/paint, or how about a roll bar? The registry knows, but how would an MCA judge? And, btw, whenever I restore mine back to stock (after I'm done having fun with it), it will match the registry info.

-bob
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
3,358 Posts
IMHO you won't ever be done having fun with it until you're old enough not to care. So why bother. ;>)
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
7,218 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
None of the above. I'm just pointing out that MCA doesn't have anyway of knowing whether the Shelby they're judging is the way it's supposed to be or not.

-bob
 

· Registered
Joined
·
405 Posts
And you think that is any different than judging the mustangs?? There are plenty of concours mustangs that are not restored as they originally came from the factory. :) :: :)

Keep yanking everyone's chain for the fun of it!!

Regards,
 

· Registered
Joined
·
8,058 Posts
"I'm just pointing out that MCA doesn't have anyway of knowing whether the Shelby they're judging is the way it's supposed to be or not"

Not sure what you mean by the statement Bob.

Since there less produced, all were built at only one factory per year and allot of the documentation has been saved I would suggest that we know a fair amount about how the cars were built. In your example the 66 Shelby was a pretty standard vehicle. If you discount the 14 or so Trans-ams, couple of drag cars and the convertibles, the rest varies less than the standard Mustang line.

If you are suggesting we don't ALWAYS know how the car was delivered or modified by the pervious owners I would say we still know more about these cars than we do about Mustangs in general.

The real Pandora’s Box IMHO is that MCA in an attempt to be nice allows the cars to be shown as they were delivered not how they came from the factory. This allows owners of Mustangs and other cars to have options (within limits) that were available on their car. One issue we've always had is that some accessories are more accepted by judges. For example you can put styled steel wheels and a console on an A code fastback. But if you add tri-wye headers and 2-4's you might get dinged for those.

In either case we would ask the owner to provide proof/documentation, if the judge needed it. And in your example we would ask the owner if he/she had some proof that that particular car was delievered with the roll bar installed. At that point it would be up to the team leader, asst Head Judge for that division or the Head Judge to make the determination.

At SAAC events no options are allowed. So in your example you would loss points for the battery, roll bar, fuzzy dice.....

Not sure if I fully answered the question
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
7,218 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yeah, but at least you'd have a data tag to go by for a Mustang. What I'm saying is they have no reference for the early Shelbys, do they? You would have called my 65 Fastback if it were painted black with a paint code for Poppy Red wouldn't you?

-bob
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
7,218 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
If you are suggesting we don't ALWAYS know how the car was delivered or modified by the pervious owners I would say we still know more about these cars than we do about Mustangs in general.
You'd have no idea if my car was Sapphire Blue from SA or if it were any of the other colors that were available for 66. You'd also have no idea if my car came with painted magnums or 10 spokes. What would your reference be? It is my understanding MCA doesn't use the SAAC registry information, so how would you be able to tell?

-bob
 

· Registered
Joined
·
8,058 Posts
A little insight.

The issue you mention is limited to 65-66 Shelbys since the rest (as far as paint) is pretty easy to figure out.


MCA (as far as I know) long ago choose not to get full Marti reports on the cars on the judging field and in the same way it has been discouraged for judges to carry around reference material that had specific information about particular cars. Of course this could change at anytime if the abuses became too evident ( car that are know to have color changes - your example- keep winning top awards)

At the same time if a judge knows that a car has had a color change and the owner is asked to prove the car is the original color then the responsibility shifts to the owner. Cars rarely show only at one show and judges, not wanting to make mistakes, should do their homework. Of course if the team leader knows of this possibility they should approach the head judge and get the possibility dealt with (moving the car to modified) ahead of time.

I have deducted on a number of occasions for color changes on Shelbys.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
7,218 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Geeze Jeff, that sounds like a 'you're guilty until proven innocent' approach. Why would you even be suspicious if I showed up with 2131 painted Sapphire Blue if the car was 'new' to the show scene? Is every 66 Shelby owner supposed to show up with something documenting how the car came from Shelby or he'll lose points because a judge 'feels' like those that car didn't come with a 4 speed?

-bob
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,139 Posts
Ok, now you're getting a bit outta hand... we here in the "Concours Forum" are going to have to ask you to... a, leave. Ya.

Have you tried the "Modified Forum"?

:winkgrin:



Quit stirring up trouble. ::
 

· Registered
Joined
·
9,821 Posts
This is exactly why I don't bother to have my 67 GT350 judged.

Don't get me wrong - I love to put it in shows and chat with the people that come by. But if it is an MCA show I don't watch while it is being judged and I don't bother getting a judging sheet.

If you are having a car judged then your fate is in the hands of the person/people judging your car. Unfortunately there isn't one judge that knows everything there is to know about your specific car, mostly due to the fact that Ford was SO inconsistent.

So if your car's widget is green and the judge "knows" that it is supposed to be blue, you have to prove that yours was originally green. You might know that it was green but you can't prove it. So points are deducted (usually leading to extreme agitation on the part of the owner).

I'm not knocking judges. Most work hard and do the very best that they can but they can't know everything. That's just not humanly possible. So IMO I have two choices (1) show the car and deal with the inconsistencies of the judging, or (2) don't bother having it judged. I choose (2), but that's just me.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
8,058 Posts
Just to continue the discussion .... really ;)


".....there isn't one judge that knows everything there is to know about your specific car,"

More the reason to get involved and educated others about the changes that came during production.


"mostly due to the fact that Ford was SO inconsistent."

Would suggest after 30+ years of owning these cars Ford was more consistent than not. It’s interesting to see owners who "know" there car came that way. Why? ;) "Because I know so and that's the way it was when I bought it/the first owner bought it ......

"So if your car's widget is green and the judge "knows" that it is supposed to be blue, you have to prove that yours was originally green. You might know that it was green but you can't prove it."

Back to the "the owner know it" If there is nothing to prove it how does the owner know that's the way it was? If you know something is going to be an issue do some homework and bring it to the show to educate and share with other owners (their looking at your car) and the judges. It’s not very likely that yours is the only car built that way. Instead we tend to see mini-trends. A worker who choose to do something different, do to their height, size, ability or laziness. But in general they tell us that they tended to pick something and stick with it...... unless they were screwing with the inspector or another worker ;)

"So points are deducted (usually leading to extreme agitation on the part of the owner)."

I would offer that in almost every case were a point was deducted for something that should not have been deducted for there is another item that the judges did not catch. I always figure it works out as an even trade. In fact we miss much more than we catch generally. But some owners only want to complain about the thing the judge did wrong

".....So IMO I have two choices (1) show the car and deal with the inconsistencies of the judging,"

Or you might want to phrase it as the inconsistencies of the cars and owners ;)

Judges not perfect.... you bet. Have people at every show that are more than willing to tell us so. We do the best we can with the understanding we currently have. Good judges never stop learning but most have seen enough cars and details not to except that rules and judging should change just because one owner or car is restored differently from the current understanding. I don't suggest that we ignore this "new" detail but if we changed the rules every time we get told "my car came that way" car show participants would have a real bone to pick with us.

Not wanting to sound defensive argumentative - we've lost many good judges through the years . Loosing each has set the hobby and the understanding allot IMHO

After 35 years of judging I'm always happy for an opportunity to discuss the in's and out's of the process - Thanks Bob for the site
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top