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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
My apologies if this has already been posted and I missed it. Seized Shelby Mustang Counterfeiter Collection Up For Grabs

For the right money, Id be interested in every one of them. My gut tells me the orange B2 is legit. Me thinks the county selling them should have invested some money and time into bringing in some renowned experts, it could have made a huge difference in sales revenue.
 

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Looks like some decent cars could be had cheap-ish. They may or may not be real Shelbys or Bosses but they look to be in excellent shape.
 

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Yep, posted already and you missed. I expect someone will be posting yet again in the off-topic. Just another day at the Mustang forum. :whistle:
 

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"accused" "seized" "state assigned VIN" "DA selling them"

Where is the due process?
Civil forfeiture as they would like to tell us. If he was never convicted of the crime(his suicide implies he wasn't) then these should have been part of his estate unless the DA's office finished prosecution of the original case.
 

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Could be good deals on driver cars, they might even be worth a bit more $ than another clone because of the story.
I wonder which VIN stamps he used?

The auction house attempt to conceal the #s are comical
 

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Civil forfeiture as they would like to tell us. If he was never convicted of the crime(his suicide implies he wasn't) then these should have been part of his estate unless the DA's office finished prosecution of the original case.
This case is different from the CAF cases most known. Absent a criminal trial i bet many of the other items or parts were returned to the estate, with a trial they might be selling his house. The cars are prima facia fraudulent, and demonstrably so by the VINs. like in a drug stop the drugs and money are treated differently, the cars are the drugs, illegal in and of themselves.
 

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This case is different from the CAF cases most known. Absent a criminal trial i bet many of the other items or parts were returned to the estate, with a trial they might be selling his house. The cars are prima facia fraudulent, and demonstrably so by the VINs. like in a drug stop the drugs and money are treated differently, the cars are the drugs, illegal in and of themselves.
Understood...but if they are illegal, then how can they be auctioned off? They should be destroyed, or returned to the original owner if possible.
 

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"accused" "seized" "state assigned VIN" "DA selling them"

Where is the due process?
Understood...but if they are illegal, then how can they be auctioned off? They should be destroyed, or returned to the original owner if possible.
They were seized subject to a warrant, that’s the start of due process. His death ended it and unless his estate contests the seizure the property goes unclaimed (and good luck with that). Now the cars sport a state issued VIN. That‘s what makes them legal now. This is different than restoring your own legit car. This is a case apparently of him making bogus Shelbys.
 

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They were seized subject to a warrant, that’s the start of due process. His death ended it and unless his estate contests the seizure the property goes unclaimed (and good luck with that). Now the cars sport a state issued VIN. That‘s what makes them legal now. This is different than restoring your own legit car. This is a case apparently of him making bogus Shelbys.
My point is that...ok, these are cars using fraudulent VINs...If these cars were stolen...the DA is now selling stolen property...which is a crime, whether they issued new VINs or not. Unless these cars can be proven to have NOT been stolen, the correct course of action here is to destroy them. Now, chances are these cars were not stolen, that they were just issued fraudulent shelby VINs by the accused...in which case it wouldn't be a crime to sell them under the original VINs. However, if they can be proven to have NOT been stolen, then they should be sold with their original VIN, the fact that they issued new VINs to begin with means the original VIN was not recoverable for whatever reason....and so the provenance of these cars is in question...THAT is why they should be destroyed...otherwise the DA opens themselves up to a potential charge of selling stolen property.
 

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LE offices sell stolen stuff thats recovered all the time absent being able to connect the item to a victim. Plus a judges order trumps all.
As for the idea of destroying them, i wonder if the fake VINs were removed and destroyed. That would seem to be a logical step Did they stamp the engines and need to grind those off or not care? i always say a good story adds value to a car, these have added value with criminal intrigue.
 

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This does not explain my question.

The owner/cars are accused of being fraudulent. Where is the due process that proves they are fraudulent VIN's?

I am seeing claims but no court process to force the authorities to prove their claims.
 

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I think what makes them legal now is… A government agency is selling them and not an individual. Doesn’t that always make it OK? :/
 

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I think what makes them legal now is… A government agency is selling them and not an individual. Doesn’t that always make it OK? :/
One law for those in power and another for everyone else....it is after all why its not "counterfeiting" when the FED prints money(not like they are a government agency anyway)....they don't much care for "quantitative easing" when its done by an individual. We could only wish for a world in which laws were consistent.
 

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The owner/cars are accused of being fraudulent. Where is the due process that proves they are fraudulent VIN's?

I am seeing claims but no court process to force the authorities to prove their claims.
Just because a story doesn't mention the procedure doesn't mean one didn't happen.
Due process does not always mean a through a trial court or a criminal case procedure. A due process can be handled through administrative law or a code of regulation and signed off on by law enforcement or even a bureaucrat such as a clerk, the subject of which could then afterwards be appealed to a higher body such as a court.
 

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If I posted that I won the lottery, someone here could come up with a conspiracy or negative spin.

Based on one newspaper article that probably had a limited number of characters available to fit in the allotted space, the VMF attorneys have decided that the government is the real guilty party in this entire saga.

I have lived in Potawatomie County OK. In fact I may have gone to school with the attorney, its the right time frame and there was only one middle and high school.

A sad ending in any event.
 

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If I posted that I won the lottery, someone here could come up with a conspiracy or negative spin.

Based on one newspaper article that probably had a limited number of characters available to fit in the allotted space, the VMF attorneys have decided that the government is the real guilty party in this entire saga.

I have lived in Potawatomie County OK. In fact I may have gone to school with the attorney, its the right time frame and there was only one middle and high school.

A sad ending in any event.
Now that made me laugh...;):p

Allen
 

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My point is that...ok, these are cars using fraudulent VINs...If these cars were stolen...the DA is now selling stolen property...which is a crime, whether they issued new VINs or not. Unless these cars can be proven to have NOT been stolen, the correct course of action here is to destroy them. Now, chances are these cars were not stolen, that they were just issued fraudulent shelby VINs by the accused...in which case it wouldn't be a crime to sell them under the original VINs. However, if they can be proven to have NOT been stolen, then they should be sold with their original VIN, the fact that they issued new VINs to begin with means the original VIN was not recoverable for whatever reason....and so the provenance of these cars is in question...THAT is why they should be destroyed...otherwise the DA opens themselves up to a potential charge of selling stolen property.
This does not explain my question.

The owner/cars are accused of being fraudulent. Where is the due process that proves they are fraudulent VIN's?

I am seeing claims but no court process to force the authorities to prove their claims.

The guy got caught because he used VINs that belonged to at least a couple of other currently registered Shelbys. The cars came from other donors. The guy then made VIN tags that represented the real VINs. Basically he made some clones and faked real Shelby VINs for other cars including at least one that had a salvage title in his name. It wouldn’t be too difficult to find the VIN info with the production guide and a Marti report. There is no claim the cars were stolen only that they used VINs from other cars (there was another guy that never got charged and his ex provided an affidavit that supported the warrant) That’s presumably why they were issued state VINs In that they were junkers the guys bought to fake Shelbys.

When there is a seizure warrant if for whatever reason you don’t/can’t contest the the seizure it becomes unclaimed property. The guy shot himself (at a gun range no less) shortly after he was served the warrant and prior to charges being filed. As the property went unclaimed it’s being disposed of under the OK abandoned property laws.

I get you guys don’t like it but for better or worse that’s how the law works in this case.
 
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