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Discussion Starter #21
My car is a 65 with a 14 Aug 64 build date.

It has factory air with a single alt pulley, single wp pulley, double crank pulley single ac pulley, ac idler pulley.

I bought the correct ps pump bracket, double wp pulley, triple crank pulley, AA ps pulley, and will reuse single alt pulley. I will add the second idler pulley.

This is the best pic of the ac clutch I have. The car is in a rented storage locker.

As you can see our ac clutches differ. Im not seeing how this will go together and all the belts line up.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Surfing CL today I found this 65 with AC & PS. It seems I will need a new AC clutch.

This matches yours but does not match mine.

It seems I will also have to figure out how to space out the idler pulley as well.

This is way more work and expense than I anticipated.
 

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I'll have to check the Mannel book when I get home to see what the differences were on the clutches. The one in the last pic there actually looks quite a bit thicker than mine, but I see what you mean on yours. Maybe there was a provision for thermactor equipment as well and the clutches were extended for an additional pulley.
 

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Okay, checked the Mannel book, your clutch is a 64-style, called a “Pitts” clutch. Looks like it was only used for 64 models. Yours would have a lot of transitional equipment as an Aug 64 car (I have one too...feel your pain. My car didn’t have AC or PS, but I added 65 PS from Chocko). It looks like those actually used a 4-sheave crank pulley with the double alternator belt and the Eaton pump. The picture shows your style AC clutch on the outer groove (no idler pulley, btw), two alt/fan belts, then the Eaton pump belt on the inner groove. The compressor brackets differ from the later 65/66 style, so that may be the problem. Yours possibly has the later brackets with the earlier compressor and clutch. That pulley should be in line with the outermost groove of the crank pulley.
 

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Also...I think that thicker-yet clutch is actually a ‘67 style unit. It appears the clutch was 1/4” thicker due to a mounting change. I think that CL ad had an engine and/or parts swap. The blue engine kind of gives that away anyway...
 

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When I bought my car it had the Eaton PS pump scabbed from whatever. Not a factory power steering car and still had the 5+ turns slow manual box. Knowing with research that the Eaton setup was tuff to find the correct pulleys for I bought a regular 65 Ford pump setup from Dan along with a rebuilt quicker PS style steering box. I then had him rebuild my center link and cylinder.

I guess I understand the OP's concern as Dan didn't seem to want to get involved the pulley situation, with me anyway. The factory style system will serve you well but the pulleys can be a pain as no 2 internet pictures show the same set up! I have felt your pain!

I think I'm now set up for factory AC other than needing a pump housing with a more slanted filler neck. If I do add AC it will be with Sanden compressor that won't need the more slanted filler neck.
 

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I added factory power steering to both my 64.5 D Code Coupe and my wife's 65 I6 200 Vert. I scavenged most of my power steering to include the steering box from a 66 V8 donor car I bought in a Junk yard for $600. A complete rust bucket. I bought the Eaton Pump and bracket for my car on eBay, actually two of them, I have a spare. I rebuilt both. I had another completer PS system to include the pump, bracket and all steering linkage out of a 70 Mustang in my garage. My wife's motor already had the correct pully on the crank for PS so I believe he engine wasn't original to the car. I used the PS pump from the 66 donor for my wife's Vert. The rest I got from Dan at Chockostang plus a power steering box. Dan steered me to a I6 pump bracket on eBay that I would need to complete my wife's car. If Dan doesn't have something like a bracket or a pulley it seems like he has the research tools or makes the effort to find one to support his customers and he's great to talk to about your project whether it be PS, disc brakes or just old car stuff. When I upgraded my front drums to discs I went back to him to get the OEM type kit he puts together.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
I have heard from many posters that Dan does not like to discuss pulleys.

Im on my own there.
 

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Well, I’m sure Dan has the same difficulty sourcing some of these oddball parts as the rest of us. I Can tell you that he provided a 3-sheave crank pulley for me in the setup I bought from him. I’m sure he knows as much or more about the variations as anyone, and he’s a very nice guy.

Honestly, that Borgeson system was a regret on my other car. I bought no fewer than six belts trying to find the right one. The hoses practically touch my exhaust manifolds, it leaks, and the instructions are barely adequate for installation. If you think changing your ac clutch or pulleys is going to be too big a pain, you will not like removing your steering column, pulling the Pittman arm, fishing out that long-*** steering box, guessing the length to cut your column tube to, trying to precisely count the number of partial turns to center your Pittman arm, then trial and erroring some belts to find one that fits. Plus, I did mine with a sanden compressor, so I have at least a little more room sound there, I think your clearance for the pump and the hoses would be even harder to deal with on the stock compressor. Oh, also, you’ll need to change your caster on the front wheels to work best with the Borgeson unit. I really think the stock setup is best. I have three cars with factory PS now, they are better in every way with the one exception of more free-play in the steering wheel than the Borgeson unit.

Anyway, I wish I had known the reality of that one before I got it. It is pretty far from a bolt-on modification. The stock one truly is that (provided you find the right parts).

I dealt with a problem like this on my 66 fastback, as a 65 engine had been swapped in at some point with the timing cover for the aluminum pump. I used the 66 cast iron water pump and learned my first lesson in non-interchangeable small block ford parts (not until after it was fully assembled, in the car, perfectly painted and pissing antifreeze all over the floor!). Two engine builds later, I now have a date-correct 66 289 in my car that works as it should. Those early ‘65 cars have weird leftover parts in them that can make you guess a little, but seriously, that Bob Mannel book is a must, and will help you many times. I would say it’s as essential as the shop manual for restoring these cars.

I sense your frustration, and I can relate. I’ll just pass along the the realization that has made me much more content by accepting:

...it’s ALWAYS a bigger job than you intended. 🙂
 

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I can identify with all but the caster adjustments (haven't gotten there yet). My biggest problem was with the weight of the old and new steering boxes, and attaching the hoses to the pump. I gave up trying to get one of them to reach and just added a short extension, shown in the attached photo.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Im stilling working on this. Ive gathered many of the parts for the engine side. Ive been sidetracked working on my 67, doing some spring cleaning and some family events. I took the money I set aside for finishing my 67 and finishing the PS upgrade on the 65 and blew it on my mortgage so both those projects are moving slower. On the plus side, I am paying $125 a month less in mortgage interest than I was paying 15 months ago.
 

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Ever think about a swap to an electric power steering PUMP to drive the factory Bendix system? Pictured is a unit from a late model VOLVO. Hypothetically speaking it could be installed just about ANYWHERE...even in the trunk and hard-lined up the LH rocker, or in the area of the LH rear inner fender splash shield? Sure would solve problems with belts, pulleys, etc.

 

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Discussion Starter #36
The Volvo setup is interesting.

The 1965 Chassis manual has finally arrived, Im heading to Summit this afternoon to pick it up along with a few other backordered items.

Since my car is a early 65 with a hodgepodge of 64.5-65 parts, Im not sure how much help the chassis manual will be.

Eyeballing the 2 groove WP pulley and 3 groove crank pulley, no way things are going to line up using my present alt and ac brackets.

I just noticed today that my passenger seat is not adjustable. I never sit in it so I never bothered to look at it.

If the Pull-A-Part has the necessary parts, I may try EPAS on the 67.
 

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I have no problems discussing pulley--AS long as it is stock configuration.
Yes I absolutely dislike try to help someone who has assembly parts, pieces, homemade crap, late model, Chevy pumps (Borgenson systems), and have no friggin idea of what they are doing.

Have experienced MANY "THESE PULLEY DON'T FIT" They state ,This is a pure stock, little old lady bought it new Mustang, on and on to find out it is a say 89 302 engine in a 66 Mustang.


Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
Well the chassis assembly manual is zero help. The engine assembly manual references the AC parts as chassis parts. The chassis manual has nothing in it on the AC.

Dan, I have a 65 289 coupe with factory AC. I want factory PS. My plan is to get the top side done, then buy a bottom unit from you.

I have a AA PS pulley, C50E-A 3 groove crank pulley, C6AE-8509-A 2 groove WP pulley and the PS pump bracket.

My current setup has the alt on groove 1 and the AC on groove 2. 1 groove alt, WP and AC pulley, 2 groove crank pulley.

The new setup will have the alt on groove 1, PS on groove 2 and the AC on groove 3.

I dont see how that will work. If I move the AC belt from groove 2 to groove 3 on the crank pulley, then the idler and AC pulley will also need to move out.

I am unable to find a factory reference as to how it comes together.
 

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Plain and simple, you have non stock AC with PS. To add PS you will need to alter the arrangement.
All, EVERY stock AC setup ran the compressor on the 3rd groove closet to radiator.
Yes PS ran straight to crank and back to PS pump on the 2nd, or middle crank groove. Alternator ran on first groove closet to engine over water pump, to crank, back to alter
So to do it as it should be, get proper idlers to run AC off that 3rd groove, extend compressor out.
Vintage Air, classic air is probably the supplier of the AC setup. Call them to get correct brackets.
 
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