[nrowles]

I'm looking at heads for my 408 stroker build. If I were to say I'm putting a 190 head on I'm sure I'd get some kick back saying I'm choking the motor but the Trick Flow 190's flow almost the exact same intake and exhaust as the AFR 205's. I'm leaning towards the Trick Flow CNC Ported because they are a few hundred cheaper.

What are your thoughts on the Trick Flow 190 ($1700 fully assembled) vs the AFR 205 ($2200 fully assembled) which appear to have the same flow numbers?

I will be asking the builder too but wanted to see what you guys think. I'm leaning hard towards Trick Flow.

 

[66coupe289]

While I run AFR 165's on my little 289, my first impression is to go with the Trick Flow for your application. I like that the intake valve is a bit smaller and I like the 56cc chambers vs 58cc for a little more squeeze. In either case, make sure you have the appropriate pistons to work with the valves.

This is worth a look:

 

[Badbenz94]

While I run AFR 165's on my little 289, my first impression is to go with the Trick Flow for your application. I like that the intake valve is a bit smaller and I like the 56cc chambers vs 58cc for a little more squeeze. In either case, make sure you have the appropriate pistons to work with the valves.

This is worth a look:

That was a good video! When I go to build my 347, Im torn between the 195s and 205's however I suspect zero difference between the two. It was really interesting how well the 165s flowed!!
Chris

 

[66coupe289]

That was a good video! When I go to build my 347, Im torn between the 195s and 205's however I suspect zero difference between the two. It was really interesting how well the 165s flowed!!
Chris

At .550 lift the flows are nearly identical between the 195 and 205. I would probably go 195's just to have more velocity and smaller intake valves. Given how well the 165's worked on a 408, you might consider the 185's and save yourself 5 bills.

Granted, they admitted having a "small" cam in the engine. But one would wonder if a 205's would fall over on a 347 the way the 220's did on the 408. I am sure expected RPM range would play into that. Drivability & throttle response are considerations too.

 

[nrowles]

That is a good video. I'm likely going to go with a bigger cam though (~.550?) so the TF190 or AFR205 might be my sweet spot.

 

[mustangtyson]

I believe those are both such big heads that they are called "high port" heads. Meaning that the exhaust port is not in the stock location. I do not know of any header manufacturers which make exhaust headers compatible with anything but exhaust ports in the stock location for a 351w in a 65-66.

 

[66coupe289]

I believe those are both such big heads that they are called "high port" heads. Meaning that the exhaust port is not in the stock location. I do not know of any header manufacturers which make exhaust headers compatible with anything but exhaust ports in the stock location for a 351w in a 65-66.

...but they will still work with Hipo manifolds or shorty headers to avoid all the headaches with long tubes, right? (totally joking)

For AFR, anything above a 185 have ports that are raised by varying amounts. From what I can see on the Trick Flow install sheet they MAY be in the stock location. There is a typo, so I would want to talk to someone to be 100% sure.

 

[rusty1161]

I believe those are both such big heads that they are called "high port" heads. Meaning that the exhaust port is not in the stock location. I do not know of any header manufacturers which make exhaust headers compatible with anything but exhaust ports in the stock location for a 351w in a 65-66.

The AFR 205 heads’ exhaust port is raised .125”, 1/8”. With the higher deck height of the 351, it shouldn’t create much more of an issue and if anything it might help since the shock towers get wider the higher you go.

Rusty

 

[j persons]

I have the Trick Flow 220 on a Dart 363 and FPA headers fit just fine.

 

[cheapbastard]

The Trick Flow exhaust ports are stock location but they need a Trick Flow specific piston unless you run a small cam.

 

[Nailbender]

The Trick Flow exhaust ports are stock location but they need a Trick Flow specific piston unless you run a small cam.

Thank you for being the guy to point that out "this time". Enjoy the deniers that will post now. Call Trick Flow if you have any questions. They are good heads though

 

[buckeyedemon]

you can't compare port volumes between many different heads because the port length is different between many of them. the TW has a shorter port, so it's volumes are smaller than a similar flowing AFR.

 

[richardsimon52]

Anyone have any experience with Liberty Performance Components heads. I believe they are from China, but some have said they work.

 

[Maxum96]

I like my AFR 205's. They also have a dual exhaust port bolt pattern. Makes it nice for bolting and unbolting my headers.

 

[Helmantel]

Interesting test. I'm surprised that the 220 cc head doesn't do any better than the 165, because the 165 cc is really small for a 408 CID engine. When you scale it down, it would be like a 117 cc head on a 289 (stock 289 heads are ~135cc). Even 220 cc is not very big for a 408: it's like a 155 cc head on a 289 (like a GT40P head).

I guess the lack of difference is due to the moderate cam, although there're a significant gain in flow between 0.400 to 0.500" lift, but apparently that didn't help any.

 

[bikefreak600]

Interesting test. I'm surprised that the 220 cc head doesn't do any better than the 165, because the 165 cc is really small for a 408 CID engine. When you scale it down, it would be like a 117 cc head on a 289 (stock 289 heads are ~135cc). Even 220 cc is not very big for a 408: it's like a 155 cc head on a 289 (like a GT40P head).

I guess the lack of difference is due to the moderate cam, although there're a significant gain in flow between 0.400 to 0.500" lift, but apparently that didn't help any.

View attachment 789927

that cylinder head video should have been called "what happens when you put a 250cfm flowing intake manifold on a big engine with small, medium and large heads" The only real testing showed how mismatched the rpm intake is on the 220 heads. If they would have at minimum port matched that intake to the 220 head, the outcome would have been much different. But i guess if you are not interested in knowing why one part didnt work as well as another then just buy the cheap head and be happy with what you get !

 

[bikefreak600]

The Trick Flow exhaust ports are stock location but they need a Trick Flow specific piston unless you run a small cam.

Yes they do ! I have a 357 ci short block with a set of TFS flat tops in it.

 

[Helmantel]

that cylinder head video should have been called "what happens when you put a 250cfm flowing intake manifold on a big engine with small, medium and large heads" The only real testing showed how mismatched the rpm intake is on the 220 heads. If they would have at minimum port matched that intake to the 220 head, the outcome would have been much different. But i guess if you are not interested in knowing why one part didnt work as well as another then just buy the cheap head and be happy with what you get !

True, that was also a limiting factor. The Performer RPM is a good intake, but I guess at 470+ hp you're probably reaching its limits. On the other hand, if it's the intake that's holding the 220 cc head back, then it should at least have matched the 195 cc head in power, but it was worse.

 

[sportsroof69]

I believe those are both such big heads that they are called "high port" heads. Meaning that the exhaust port is not in the stock location. I do not know of any header manufacturers which make exhaust headers compatible with anything but exhaust ports in the stock location for a 351w in a 65-66.

Neither of those heads are high ports. They have a raised port, but any header will work fine.

 

[sportsroof69]

And all that video demonstrates is the importance of a matched combination. Swapping heads and not changing the cam and intake is dumb. All it did was create a crappy set of parts that didn’t work together.