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Discussion Starter #41
Consider that the product liability for a "roll-your-own" retrofitted ABS and Traction Control system is immense. While your ambition is commendable, the potential down side can lead to serious "puckering" when one factors in being on the wrong side of a wrongful death lawsuit brought by the survivors of the guy who is killed when a defect in your installation is found to be he cause. Unless the risk analysts and underwriters have changed their tune in recent years, product liability insurance is so costly, if it is even available, it is effectively unavailable and you would likely be flying bare with balls of steel. Consider further that any shop that did the actual wrench turning would likely be at risk financially as well. Remember the unintended acceleration litigation with the Audi's from three decades ago or the more recent Toyota/Lexus debacle? Cost of defense alone would be financially crippling. I know this sounds like I am raining on your parade and that is not my intent. I would hope you proceed with eyes wide open as you develop your plan for this ambitious project.
Good luck.
I know the risks. The potential for lawsuits is ever present. Especially because I am going to do 100% of the work myself. Still gonna try. Any mod no matter how small can be twisted in a courtroom as the cause of the accident/crash. It's all good. Either way, thanks for the forewarning and thoughtful response. I have a sticky throttle plate on my Avenger and I won't even move it further than my garage because I don't want it to stick open and end up in a ditch.

I bet that if I found a mid 90's Mustang GT most of the running gear that I would need would be right there. Even if I had to use the factory ECU. Only have to fool it into thinking its running an engine. Did that once already. Had a Megasquirt running the engine, but retained all the sensors for the factory ECU. ECU didn't know the difference. All gauges worked etc...
 

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<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> I, for one, am interested in following your future build. You are a bold & adventurous individual… I will love to see how you can do the build & enjoy it.
Best of luck!
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It seems as though what you are looking for may be something like a viper, re-bodied to look like a mustang?
Hey, that's not so far-fetched, IIRC Legendary Motorcar put a Viper drivetrain in a vintage 'cuda.

Having said that, please don't do 150 on the street, especially while giving passengers a joy ride, that's how Paul Walker was killed, and bystanders could have been.

P.S. What SCCA racing have you done ?
 

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Hey all

Now that I have my 69' I have been thinking about driveability.

The goal is to have a Boss 429 (looking) Clone but with 1,000 hp- modern brakes, independent front suspension, 4 link rear...etc...
My Viper makes around 750 hp. It also has modern suspension, big brakes, 355mm rear tires, tubular frame and carbon fiber body panels...stability control, ABS... The car weighs around 3250 lbs. A totally confidant fast car. At 150mph the car is razor sharp and predictable. Not that I live at that speed, but I LOVE the occasional blast and taking people for rides.

What I am wondering is if there is any sort of aftermarket traction control systems and ABS systems out there. The traction control has saved my butt a couple times in the Viper and that is a purpose built race car for the street.
The main thing is I want the 69' to hook up and go great in a straight line. I don't plan on carving any corners with it so to speak like I do with the Viper. Drag radials will be a must. I want it to stop also. If I want to come down from 150mph, I want it to do it right now and not have the brakes lock up.

Your thoughts?
IMHO, what you want is to take a modern drivetrain from a Mustang GT and transplant it into the vintage Mustang. If you take this approach, trying to engineer a aftermarket solution is avoided. The Coyote engine has the "wide" look of the Boss 9 engine and can probably be made to look a bit more vintage with some effort. Put a Hellion turbo kit on it and you can be in the 1000 HP range. Your challenge would be the rear suspension and incorporation of the ABS. With the new Mustangs having IRS, you would have to incorporate the ABS components onto a solid axle.
I did something similar already, I transplanted a 2004 Mach 1 drive train into a Factory Five Cobra replica. Runs great with just 350 HP in a 2300 lb car. The ABS function was not impaired by the much lighter Cobra, it works on monitoring wheel lockup independent of vehicle weight, lock up is lock up.
Just one approach that could get you to where you want to go.

Alan
 

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First I'd recommend that you look into understanding how modern systems achieve traction control and ABS functionality. I used to do the development for systems like this and I can tell you that the amount of engineering involved is staggering. Each subsystem like your brake, transmission, engine, etc has its own computer and they are all interconnected with a network (called CAN on most new vehicles). That network can transmit at speeds higher than most networks in your home. The network messages are picked up by each device so that the brake can tell the transmission that one wheel is slipping and the transmission can divert power away from that wheel. Make sense? Achieving that interoperability with an old engine like the Boss 429 will be really hard because they had no sensors versus modern cars which have hundreds. Not that I'm discouraging you but you should understand what challenges lie ahead.

I say go for it - I like to see people chase their dreams and the harder the goal, the more interesting the story.

david
 

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Discussion Starter #47
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Best of luck!
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Thankyou

Hey, that's not so far-fetched, IIRC Legendary Motorcar put a Viper drivetrain in a vintage 'cuda.

Having said that, please don't do 150 on the street, especially while giving passengers a joy ride, that's how Paul Walker was killed, and bystanders could have been.

P.S. What SCCA racing have you done ?
SCCA ran a lot of events at the road course in Gainesville FL. I used to tear it up in my 06 TL 6 spd.


Go to a roadrace track and learn to drive it. Go to a large parking lot after hours on a rainy night and practice driving it.
Plan to :smile2:

IMHO, what you want is to take a modern drivetrain from a Mustang GT and transplant it into the vintage Mustang. If you take this approach, trying to engineer a aftermarket solution is avoided. The Coyote engine has the "wide" look of the Boss 9 engine and can probably be made to look a bit more vintage with some effort. Put a Hellion turbo kit on it and you can be in the 1000 HP range. Your challenge would be the rear suspension and incorporation of the ABS. With the new Mustangs having IRS, you would have to incorporate the ABS components onto a solid axle.
I did something similar already, I transplanted a 2004 Mach 1 drive train into a Factory Five Cobra replica. Runs great with just 350 HP in a 2300 lb car. The ABS function was not impaired by the much lighter Cobra, it works on monitoring wheel lockup independent of vehicle weight, lock up is lock up.
Just one approach that could get you to where you want to go.

Alan
The whole reason for the Boss 429 Clone is because of my dad. Growing up we had a lot of cool Mustangs. Two 1969 Boss 429s, a 67 GT350 Convertible and a 70 Mach 1. After his stroke we had to sell them all. My plan is to build this car with him as our last project together. I can't afford a real Boss 429- and really wouldn't dare drive it anyway- so this is the next best thing. And might as well make it beastly. One of the reasons I want it to have some manners. Just thought of something....I suppose I could just have two separate tunes for the EFI. Much like a Hellcat has two keys. A fast key and a really fast key.

First I'd recommend that you look into understanding how modern systems achieve traction control and ABS functionality. I used to do the development for systems like this and I can tell you that the amount of engineering involved is staggering. Each subsystem like your brake, transmission, engine, etc has its own computer and they are all interconnected with a network (called CAN on most new vehicles). That network can transmit at speeds higher than most networks in your home. The network messages are picked up by each device so that the brake can tell the transmission that one wheel is slipping and the transmission can divert power away from that wheel. Make sense? Achieving that interoperability with an old engine like the Boss 429 will be really hard because they had no sensors versus modern cars which have hundreds. Not that I'm discouraging you but you should understand what challenges lie ahead.

I say go for it - I like to see people chase their dreams and the harder the goal, the more interesting the story.

david
I am planning on using Jon Kasse Stacked injection. Comes with Fast XFI or Holley ecu , all sensors, injector harness, universal car harness, and injectors. I figure my next route should be to check out those EFI systems and see if they have provisions for traction control and any other safety systems. And thank you. Several times in my life I have completed projects that no one said could be done because of the effort or ingenuity involved. I like to innovate.
 

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Speed doesn't kill you know. There is not a single documented death as a result of high speed. Coming to an abrupt stop, that's what gets ya.
I guess i'm risky.
Thanks for your concern.
You better check your facts on that one.
https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/810998

https://www.curbed.com/2017/7/28/16051780/us-traffic-death-speeding-statistics-speeding

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812265

ad infinitum
Stan
 

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Is that you Ray? I swear I work with this guy.
 

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You know, I really don't even want to respond to this thread because you've been a dick to everyone...
Whoa...did that come off your keyboard, Kelly? You use to be such a sweet, innocent young lady :) :)
 

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Kelly, I assume works in Archeology, Paleontology? Using her skills, she quickly identified the OP as a stone age tool and named him "dick"? It's about time they stopped using Latin to name things!
 

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Whoa...did that come off your keyboard, Kelly? You use to be such a sweet, innocent young lady :) :)
Kinda shocked me too! Although I know she is tough as nails I was surprised to read that. Pete must have really pushed her button!
well she has been around here for sometime dealing with us old curmudgeons :D:D
 

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I wonder where the OP is. Maybe washing his 8 cars? :pirate:
Stan
 

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Discussion Starter #58 (Edited)
I wonder where the OP is. Maybe washing his 8 cars? :pirate:
Stan

Working. 8:30am to nearly midnight yesterday and 8:30am to whenever the last customer leaves today.

Sometimes it is a PITA having so many cars. I maintain them all myself so it is a lot of work.
 

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I wonder where the OP is. Maybe washing his 8 cars? :pirate:
He's an auto dealership sales manager and it's the last weekend/Saturday of the month. A brief respite for us. Suggesting that Kelly should take some pills was a mistake. I don't know about the rest of you but I wouldn't be inclined to help the blighter.
Not one little bit. :|
 

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Discussion Starter #60
He's an auto dealership sales manager and it's the last weekend/Saturday of the month. A brief respite for us. Suggesting that Kelly should take some pills was a mistake. I don't know about the rest of you but I wouldn't be inclined to help the blighter.
Not one little bit. :|
A blighter? Seriously? Well that's not very nice. As I mentioned in my previous post that it wasn't my intention to put anyone off and I apologized. What amazes me most is that I have apologized and you guys are still jumping down my throat. :shrug:

I've been a part of auto forums since 2002. Completed at least 2 dozen "how to" threads with every instruction and detail needed to complete a specific task/project. I have been on the phone with other members for countless hours helping to diagnose a problem and with time became the "go to" guy in many instances for a lot of issues.

I wouldn't have been promoted to Regional VP for Viper Owners Association if I was a Dick. It doesn't work that way. I earned it.

I don't know how I can get you guys/gals to understand that I am sorry for how I responded to some posts when even after I apologize, fellow members are the ones acting like dicks. So my apology isn't good enough? What else do you want? You want me to leave? BAN me. I'm not going anywhere otherwise. My history with Mustangs runs deep.

In the end, no matter what any of you think of me right now- I will become a respected member of Vintage Mustang Forums. My actions are going to speak a lot louder than a few childish (on my part) posts. I have only been here a short time and I see the camaraderie I see the closeness of the group and I want to be a part of it. In the future I'll respond differently to sarcastic and irrelevant posts to my topics- that's really all I can do.
 
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