Vintage Mustang Forums banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,724 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Two header fails that were supposed to fit. Pics below.
Car Info:
- 1965 GT FB, orig. 289 and 4 speed still in car, original style suspension, manual steering.
- Original 2 owner car, I’m owner #2 for last 27 years, 67K on the car when I got it.
- Original exhaust system (minus resonators).
- New motor mounts, even though what was on was in good shape and I had done the bolt through trick to keep them from separating or sagging.
- Export Brace and Monte Carlo Bar have been car since about 75K.
- Replacing due to DS exhaust manifold cracking through between #6 & 7 on way back from road trip from Nor-Cal to Minnesota and back in June. Had some Flowmaster long tubes in a box so decided it was time to put them on and replace original mufflers since one was developing a hole.

First Header Fail:
- Flowmaster 814211 Long Tube Ceramic Coated, 1 3/4” primary tubes, 3” collectors, thick flanges.
- https://www.holley.com/products/exhaust/headers_and_exhaust_manifolds/long_tube/parts/814211
- Supposed to fit 1965-73 w/ 289-302.
- Nice looking, well over $900 with tax.
- Details say fits with Z-Bar.
-Mounted the PS side first which should be the easy side.
- #1 tube was up against the shock tower. Did not what to ding/massage/clearance as they should fit.
- Had to cut rear UCA bolt shorter to clear #2 tube.
- Collector looked to be too far to outside frame rail, near speedo cable and not in hump part of tranny crossmember.
- Liked how they did not hang low.
- Did not even try to mount DS as if PS was that bad, I had big doubts about the DS and Z-Bar clearing.
- Probably too much tube size for my stock 289 4V anyway.
- I assume they are a better fit in the larger 1967-73 cars.
Might return or if anyone wants some $900+ headers for $600? Seriously!

Second Header Fail:
Tried Doug’s Tri-Y based on recommendation from friend that put them on several cars.
- Doug’s D690YS Tri-Y, Ceramic Coated, 1 5/8” primary tubes, 2 1/2” collector, thick flanges
- https://shop.dougsheaders.com/doug-s-headers-d690ys-1-5-8-tri-y-header-ford-mustang-small-block-ford-64-70-metallic-ceramic-coating.html#.XaK7eEZKi70
- Nice looking, well over $700 with tax.
- Details say fits with Z-Bar as long as it is not a Hi-Po Z-Bar.
- Mounted the PS side first which fit great. Lots of clearance good collector location.
- Mounted DS #7 tube was lightly against the shock tower at outer most part of curve. Decided to go ahead and commit to these and clearance #7. Heat and C clamp and used a jig I made to support back side of tube. Looks like there was enough room for #7 to turn more to rear to avoid the shock tower.
- Installed Z-Bar and it DOES NOT clear. Upper leg and tube are fine. Lower leg is not even close. In the starting position it’s up against one of the secondary tubes. That’s with every thing form pedal to release lever hooked up.
I believe the Z-Bar is original. I haven’t changed it, I don’t believe the Original Owner did either. I did put the Opentracker Heim Joint parts on the Z-Bar but it’s the lower leg with nothing on it that does not clear.

What is the difference between a Hi-Po and non-Hi-Po Z-Bar? Is it the length of the lower leg? If so, anyone have measurements so I can check mine? I not ready to just start hacking/drilling/ welding on my Z-Bar until I really know what’s going on. Also, I think to clearance that tube would be too much to ask.

Thought, suggestions, recommendations. For headers, that is. I’ve already had the thought that maybe I just should have thrown another stock manifold on the DS and gotten a few more years and trips out of the stock system, but was looking forward to adding a little more performance.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
The tri ys are probably better for your 289 anyways. As has been said loosening the motor mounts and playing with the engine alignment is often needed.

However, it appears your issue is the Zbar. Is your engine a hipo? If so that appears to explain everything as you said the directions stated "will not work with Hipo Zbar" Although it's a lot of work you could buy a non hipo z bar and use that while saving your original. If you are putting headers on it you appear to not be totally concerned with originality.

If your not super concerned with the ultimate performance you could also just buy a set of reproduction hipo manifolds and sell both sets of headers.

Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Just throwing this out there. I've heard the prothane motor mounts will raise your motor 1". (Along with the late model mounts).
I have a similar issue on my drivers side, I opted for Ron Morris adjustable mounts for any future motor plans.
Haven't put them in yet, because the car is at paint.

Regardless, I'd be looking potentially at your motor mounts for either replacement or upgrade.

Also, do you have a monte carlo bar? I'd check your shock tower distance if not. (it's free)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,269 Posts
I installed the Ron Morris mounts for header clearance and am very happy with them. I also visited the NPD website and found the Prothane mounts and read this: "INSULATOR, MOTOR MOUNT, POLYURETHANE, PROTHANE, RED, PAIR, ** ALL 1967 AND 68-70 CONVERTIBLES THIS MOUNT WILL RAISE THE MOTOR APPROXIMATELY 1/2 INCH DUE TO SPECIFIC SUPPORTS**"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,405 Posts
I agonized about header fitment since I have a 351 Cleveland with power steering and a Z-bar. After much research and consternation, I went with Sanderson Shorty headers. Everything fits!

Yeah, people talk about long-tube performance vs. Tri-Y performance and how shorties are a compromise. My take is for a street car I'll never notice the difference and, hello, long tubes and Tri-Ys can't improve performance if I can't get them on the car! Shorty headers are better than the cast manifolds anyway.

Sanderson is also a small, "Mom & Pop" shop with very good customer support. A friend of mine put a 460 into his early 70s F-250 4X4. That engine wasn't available in that truck from the factory. Sanderson had to send him three different sets of headers, but they found a combination that worked and bolted right in.

I expect you'd like to get those second pair of headers to fit, but I dunno. They look pretty big and it would likely require some serious fabrication.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,724 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Just throwing this out there. I've heard the prothane motor mounts will raise your motor 1". (Along with the late model mounts).
I have a similar issue on my drivers side, I opted for Ron Morris adjustable mounts for any future motor plans.
Haven't put them in yet, because the car is at paint.

Regardless, I'd be looking potentially at your motor mounts for either replacement or upgrade.

Also, do you have a monte carlo bar? I'd check your shock tower distance if not. (it's free)
Z-Bar attaches to engine block on one side, headers are attached to block, raise the engine you just raise both the headers and the Z-Bar. Doesn't seem that that would change any thing.

There aren't 2 threaded holes on that side of the block are there, and I screwed the stud back into the wrong(lower) one?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,542 Posts
Z-Bar attaches to engine block on one side, headers are attached to block, raise the engine you just raise both the headers and the Z-Bar. Doesn't seem that that would change any thing.
If you raise the engine, then the z-bar won't be horizontal anymore because one end is mounted to the frame rail. You would have to raise the bracket on the frame rail to match corresponding rise from the engine or I imagine it could put some unforseen stress on the pivot balls or brackets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,724 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
It's a good thing for you that the first set didn't fit. An original 289 with 1 3/4" primaries wouldn't get out of its own way. That's way too much primary.
I agree. They need to be on a bigger breathing motor and in a car they fit.
Given the PS shock tower issue and collector location I've got to believe that the tubes were too much counter clockwise related to the flange when welded up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
553 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,148 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,969 Posts
I'm running MAC longtubes. I bought them because they'll work with GT40P heads even though they weren't designed to. Over all fitment was very good. I had 3 pipes I did have to " massage" slightly. One tube was for the Z bar shaft. I had to put a socket across the tube a d put a relief for the Z bar shaft. The other two tubes were one on each side I had to flatten slightly for clearance to the frame rail. Outside of this issues, very good. No problems with the rest of the Z bar linkage at all. Easy access too. No problems with the starter. I have manual steering too on my 66 but these headers will clear the PS ram without the need of a typical drop bracket.

A big advantage on the left header is #5 tube slips in after the main body is in. Great ground clearance too.

Z bar dent


Left frame, right side same.



Clutch linkage



Tuck up close to the floor



Underneath

 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top