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Discussion Starter #1
In the spirit of others learning from my problem: The motor: 351cleveland

The problem:
After engine, rebuild my original dipstick wasn’t working.

Steps taken:
Bought aftermarket -too long.
Bought high dollar black braided lokar. Too long.

The diagnosis:
Defective $400 oil pan from Canton.
The access hole in baffle misaligned.
Figured this out after I cut all three dipsticks.

How I solved:
Ran a illuminated bore scope down the original metal dipstick tubes.
Watch the video. You will see the round hole in the baffle is off to the side rather than under the scope view.

So I guess I have pull the oil pan.
I hope I don’t have to pull the motor.
WHAT A PIA! I’m pissed.








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That sucks! In the video it looks like you can see a mark on the metal where the dipsticks have scratched it. Years ago when building a FF Cobra I used a Canton pan. The drain plug would not thread in without a lot of force applied. There was metal on the drain plug when it was removed. I contacted Canton and found out that the guy welding on the bungs was supposed to run a tap after the welding process and wasn't doing his job. Like you, my engine was in the car, fortunately I could remove it, but a PITA. Vendor said that problem never happened before, Canton said different. It will be interesting when you share the video with Canton. Yes you can just drill a hole, but Canton should replace the pan and compensate you for at least one of the dip sticks. If Canton is not informed, the guy who messed up your pan will mess up others.
 

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I hope you have better luck than I did. I rebuilt my original 289 back in 2015. I decided to go with a nice cast aluminum oil pan. Got the freshly rebuilt engine back in the car and ... noticed I had a fresh new oil stain underneath it every morning. Yes, I was pissed. after wiping and searching, I finally realized I had a pinhole in the bottom of my brand new oil pan. Took it off (PIA) and tried to solder it with a propane torch and that special solder. I ruined the oil pan, so I bought another. Checked it first this time by filling it with solvent and hitting it underneath with my compressed air nozzle. I got a nice stream of air bubbles from a different spot this time! Tried a standard steel pan. This one did not fit around the crankshaft area and I had a leak up there now. Tu
IMG_0769.JPG
rns out the ridges on the pan did not line up properly. On my 4th try I got a pan that fit and did not leak! (Black one at the top)
 

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The lower portion of the factory Cleveland dipstick tube is about a foot long, you can easily tweak the tube by accident. Given that the Canton pan is designed for the factory dipstick location, if it's tweaked, it won't line up. If your dipstick is curved, it could also cause this problem.

The easy fix, regardless of if the pan is wrong or not, is to tweak your dipstick and/or the tube to align with the hole in the baffle. It isn't off a huge amount and shouldn't require much effort. Looks like it needs to go back and to the right about an inch each.

738744
 

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In the spirit of others learning from my problem: The motor: 351cleveland

The problem:
After engine, rebuild my original dipstick wasn’t working.

Steps taken:
Bought aftermarket -too long.
Bought high dollar black braided lokar. Too long.

The diagnosis:
Defective $400 oil pan from Canton.
The access hole in baffle misaligned.
Figured this out after I cut all three dipsticks.

How I solved:
Ran a illuminated bore scope down the original metal dipstick tubes.
Watch the video. You will see the round hole in the baffle is off to the side rather than under the scope view.

So I guess I have pull the oil pan.
I hope I don’t have to pull the motor.
WHAT A PIA! I’m pissed.








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can we assume you had a nice discussion with the vendor with no joy?
 

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My Canton pan has the same issue. In the spring I will remove the pan and clearance the hole. My suggestion to others is to dry fit the pan to insure the dipstick clears the baffle before final assembly.
 

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You didn't happen to check your dipstick after your rebuild? It's a whole lot easier to fit-check everything (when you make modifications) before your install. Just consider it a lesson well learned.
 

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I forget; I think they were all around $100. I was able to return the second aluminum pan and the other steel pan. FYI I considered using a sealer on the inside of the pan but I was paranoid about it flaking off someday and clogging a critical oil passage in my freshly rebuilt 289. I’m pretty sure the major oems seal their aluminum castings now, but I know of at least one CHRYSLER Transaxle casing in the ‘80’s that left the dealer leaking transmission fluid due to a porous casting... (my dads car)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
My pan was like $389.
And I bought their windage tray.

I didn’t put the pan on. My engine builder did.
And when he Dynoed it, he just plugged the hole.
Kind of stupid, because I had the dipstick right there for him to use.
But he didn’t. He could have caught this issue.
Now the engine is in the car.





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Discussion Starter #13
The lower portion of the factory Cleveland dipstick tube is about a foot long, you can easily tweak the tube by accident. Given that the Canton pan is designed for the factory dipstick location, if it's tweaked, it won't line up. If your dipstick is curved, it could also cause this problem.

The easy fix, regardless of if the pan is wrong or not, is to tweak your dipstick and/or the tube to align with the hole in the baffle. It isn't off a huge amount and shouldn't require much effort. Looks like it needs to go back and to the right about an inch each.

View attachment 738744
HemiKiller- I have three dipsticks.
They all do the same thing, so I don’t think they are tweaked.


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Discussion Starter #15
That sucks! In the video it looks like you can see a mark on the metal where the dipsticks have scratched it. Years ago when building a FF Cobra I used a Canton pan. The drain plug would not thread in without a lot of force applied. There was metal on the drain plug when it was removed. I contacted Canton and found out that the guy welding on the bungs was supposed to run a tap after the welding process and wasn't doing his job. Like you, my engine was in the car, fortunately I could remove it, but a PITA. Vendor said that problem never happened before, Canton said different. It will be interesting when you share the video with Canton. Yes you can just drill a hole, but Canton should replace the pan and compensate you for at least one of the dip sticks. If Canton is not informed, the guy who messed up your pan will mess up others.
Boss,
Great observation.
I didn’t notice the scratches.
That’s a great point.
Thanks for the heads up.



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So tweak the tube so it guides the dipstick to the hole.
In the case of my 289 there is not really a way to do that. I have a stock dipstick and tube so a fixed point at the timing cover a fixed point at the tab that attaches to the head and a fairly rigid tube in between. A couple hours to drop the pan at the next oil change is not a big deal.
 

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If i could add a tip, if you're pulling the oil pan while the engine is in the car, get yourself an oil pan stud kit. It makes re-installing the pan much easier in my opinion.
 

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In the case of my 289 there is not really a way to do that. I have a stock dipstick and tube so a fixed point at the timing cover a fixed point at the tab that attaches to the head and a fairly rigid tube in between. A couple hours to drop the pan at the next oil change is not a big deal.
You absolutely can on a Windsor engine. You have a choice of either adjusting the dipstick itself, to swing it towards the relief in the tray, or tweaking the tube. Most of the aftermarket sticks I've seen only need to be straightened to work properly, as the material is rarely flattened during manufacture.

A Cleveland dipstick setup literally has a foot of tube hanging out in the breeze below where it exits the block.
 

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You absolutely can on a Windsor engine. You have a choice of either adjusting the dipstick itself, to swing it towards the relief in the tray, or tweaking the tube. Most of the aftermarket sticks I've seen only need to be straightened to work properly, as the material is rarely flattened during manufacture.

A Cleveland dipstick setup literally has a foot of tube hanging out in the breeze below where it exits the block.
"Absolutely can" means there are no situations where it cannot...mighty strong. Given the bore through the timing cover is at a fixed angle the only thing that simply tweaking the tube can do is move the dipstick from one side of the tube exit to the other. Maybe that is enough, maybe not. Given my non-tweaked tube seals fine, I would rather not mess with it. I prefer not to bend the dipstick as that will impact the level reading to some degree and makes insertion orientation critical.

One could also buy the Canton dipstick & tube in order to use the port they put on the pan.

At the end of the day it probably comes down to preference. (but it wouldn't have killed Canton to make the hole a bit bigger and better aligned to start with. :) )
 
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