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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm seriously thinking about putting the mass flo efi on my 408 stroker in my 67 vert, I just spent 700.00 on a pro-systems carb that was supposed to be the ultimate carb and I'm not impressed, I hate carbs!
How is the performance compared to a good carb? Sometimes I hear you loose a bit of power with the mass flo but gain drivability, I have 500+ hp so I might be able to part with some..

I had holley efi in the past and it was a huge improvement over a carb but a real pain to tune I like the mass air type system.

Its expensive I know but I like the fact it uses stock parts and sensors.
 

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Most of the EFI systems out there will do a great job. Even the stock stuff with the right hardware.

What you want to look for is something you feel good about learning. One thing to keep in consideration is that the less common the system, the less common the users. Therefore less public support and/or file swapping.

It has always been said that you lose PEAK power with EFI, but you usually gain in average power, and thats what really counts.

Funny thing is I went the otherway. I am bored of EFI. Pretty much done it all. Hell, I have a 2.3 iron headed Mustang thats 418 rwhp. I am playing with the first carb I have touched in about 15 years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I dont think a stock system would be adequete on my 408, theres some really good efi systems out there but almost all are speed density, been looking at the boss efi as well, I ran a couple holley TBI's in the past and they were way better than a carb in drivability, power and mpg's but anymore I cant stand tuning fuel systems. I like the idea of finding parts for my efi at any auto parts and a sequential efi versus batch fire or tbi. Looking at the mass flo MAF sensor and wondering if it would be a restriction of airflow, my idea is to run a ported victor or hurricane with mpi. Like i said I bought a 700.00 designer 950hp holley and I like the way my 650 cfm 300.00 speed demon runs better for the most part.

I think I want to go to efi again.
 

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If your feeling adventures you could always get a Megasquirt ECU and build your own system.
 

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The Mass-Flo works great for strokers. I know a couple of vintage guys and Cobra replica guys running it. Everything from 347s to 427 Windsors. The system will handle it with the proper fuel system and injector size. It is COMPLETELY Ford EEC-IV based (easy to get parts locally) except for the GM mass-air meter, which I'm sure you could get locally if you knew the original application.

The wiring is VERY easy. Lay the harness in place and hook up about six wires (ign, bat, tach, CEL, etc.) The harness is very similar to the new Ford Racing harness and/or the Scott Drake harness with all emissions stuff removed, so the harness is quite small.

I'd get more opinions on the BossEFI first. One guy I know is having issues with his install (something to do with the ignition/distributor) and has gone back and forth with Retrotek for weeks now.
 

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I was I think the first here to try it out. I am very happy with it, tough call on saying it increased power or not, it definitly made driving the car more enjoyable. It is like a modern car, climb in twist the key, the engine starts without any dramatics, and I can drive away right then. No more nursing it for a mile or so until it warms up.

As others have said, other than the air flow meter all the parts are off the shelf Ford parts. No worries about being unable to locate some one off part years from now. I read thru the FFR forum where everybody who installed this kit had nothing but praise for it and Chris for his help if there was a problem.

When I fired mine up for the first time the idle was rough and I had some stalling issues. I went thru the trouble shooting steps in the installtion instructions, without much change. I contacted Chris, he and I reviewed what twas happening and what I had done. He had me ship the ECU back to him and he installed a chip (on his dime) and returned the unit to me in a few days, end of my problems. If you order be specific about your engine setup, what cam you are using, this may help you to avoid the idle issues I had. BTW, I have the install manuals on file in my computer, if you're interested I can send them to you, Monday would be the earliest as I'm out of town now.
 

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I have the Mass Flo system in my 65 FB. I am running a 2006 390 hp Ford 302 crate motor. As others have said it is really a simple install and the car starts and run just like my 2005 and 2007 Mustang GTs. I drove my FB cross country last spring with no troubles whatsoever and got 21.5 mpg. Once you set the fuel pressure to 42lbs and the idle to 1100 rpm you just sit back and let the computer do its thing. What I really like about the Mass Flo system aside from its simplicity is that at first blush when someone looks under the hood it appears to be a carbed engine. In my case I wanted the old school look with the advantages of a modern car. Mass Flo gave me both and they say it will self adjust (re-tune itself) up to about 650 horses. It ain't cheap but it sure works well.
 

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ralph said:
I dont think a stock system would be adequete on my 408,
I was refering to a stock style set up. Basicly a factory computer, harness. Then of course proper injector size as well as air meter.

Its just a N/A 408, correct? Dont take that wrong. I just mean its not a power adder car or anything else that would require extensive tuning.
 

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The Mass Flo EFI would be both easier to install and "better looking" in my opinion than a stock type Ford EEC-IV system.

However, there's no evidence to suggest the Mass Flo system would offer more performance, more options, or more tunability (if that's a word). There are so many performance enhancements that are designed specifically for the 5.0 mustang that it is the most flexible system you could possibly install on a vintage mustang. For instance, there are at least a dozen different intake manifolds, scores of mass air meters, about 10 different fuel injector sizes, several blowers, etc. etc. etc. that will essentially bolt right up to a 5.0, making EEC-IV the most versitile system to control your engine that you could possible use.

As far as carb vs EFI performance, it will depend on the tune of either. Either will dial up the A/F ratio at WOT to give a real "power mix" if they are set up that way.

The Mass Flo EFI system appears to be a good entry level EFI solution to me. However, I've decided to go with stock type EEC-IV because it's going to be cheaper to get into (because of the avialablity of used components) and it'll give a good route to a power adder (if wanted) in the future. I did go ahead and get a Tweecer RT to go with mine so I'll be able to change tune it without chips.

Whatever way you go on EFI, you should end up with a more "drivable" car that will give you better starting, easier cold drive-away, better milage, lower emissions, and less problems with vapor lock. I don't think you'll find more power or a better ET though. If you did, it would indicate your carburetor was poorly tuned to begin with.

Phil
 

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Um, Phil...

The Mass-Flo IS EEC-IV! It just uses a carb based manifold (their own design now) and a central throttle body instead of the long-runner upper the OE uses...

Except for the GM mass-air meter and the small harness that adapts the GM meter to the Ford mass-air connector EVERYTHING is EEC-IV. It uses the A9L 5-speed ECM, Ford IAC, TPS, ATC, ETC, etc...

All Ford sensors you can get at the dealer or local parts store...
 

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I have the Boss EFI in my 1970 Challenger stroked restomod. It is a 360 stroked to 426 (525 hp+) with a Zex 200hp shot of direct port nos. They make quality parts! I was very impressed with the build quality of their products! I also have their Smartshift Paddle System as well. I am thinking of putting both in my '69 Mach. The Boss EFI works flawless with the Gear Vendors unit for paddle shifting and you can use ANY intake manifold you want - the reason I did not go with Mass Flo (you have to use their manifolds). There are no fuel rails and the system is self-learning! It looks just like a carb. I went with the 750 cfm version because I was told they were bench-tested with 930 cfm results. They actually forgot they told me this and were trying to steer me towards the 1200 cfm version, which in my opinion, is overkill, when it was time to buy! You will LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT!!
 

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I have the mass flo setup on my 347 and although I dont have much driving time in I am very impressed. I wanted a solution I or my wife could just turn the key and drive on AND still look mostly stock. That ruled out a newer style unit.

I still am amazed when I think back to the first time I started the engine. I turned the key on and off a few times to prime the pump without turning over engine. Literally expected to have to crank/'rotate dizzy/ try again....

Nope, literally fired up immediately and idled pretty well.

Very complete kit.

Chris
 

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I have done a couple of Mass-Flo EFI installs and love the system. Instant start-up, new-car driveability, and no tuning required. Almost everything's Ford so no problem finding parts when you're off in BFE on a road trip or something.

The only problem I ever had was with the TFI distributor. This isn't Mass-Flo specific so it wasn't their fault, and the TFI parts aren't exactly sterling examples of Ford reliability. In this case it was the PIP module inside the distributor, and I went to NAPA and got a replacement.

As a side note, the system (and most EFI systems for that matter) was nice when my shop was located at 7000 feet in Flagstaff, AZ. In 30 minutes I could either be at 9500' or 3500', and carbs sure didn't like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I've seen some of your cars, a really nice one at the last fab fords forever show, I think it had a 347 with the mass flo efi. I'm either going the mass flo or still watching how the boss efi does as I like the design. My only thing about the mass flo is just about every dyno test I have seen the mass flo makes less peak power than a carb but torque and drivability is up. I have a 408 that should be around 525hp and I want to get all I can out of it.
 

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ralph said:
I've seen some of your cars, a really nice one at the last fab fords forever show, I think it had a 347 with the mass flo efi. I'm either going the mass flo or still watching how the boss efi does as I like the design. My only thing about the mass flo is just about every dyno test I have seen the mass flo makes less peak power than a carb but torque and drivability is up. I have a 408 that should be around 525hp and I want to get all I can out of it.
Thanks for the compliment!

I am considering using the Retrotek BOSSEFI system on the car I'm building right now. It seems like the real deal but I haven't heard enough first-hand reports yet.

The way I look at it, the thing that is giving you reservations about Mass-Flo is the same thing that makes the system attractive to me. I like to build for driveability and street performance, which is what you get with Mass-Flo. I can do without a few hp at 6000 rpm in exchange for more low-end torque, which is what you notice from stoplight to stoplight.
 

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ralph said:
True, but my 408 has so much low end now I cant imagine how I'd use more.
Just for argument's sake, how are you going to use 525 hp anyway?
 

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No really though...525 hp is hard to use on the street. I was implying that you'll probably rarely be up in the rpm range where that 525 hp is. What kind of gear ratio do you have out back?
 
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