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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have decided that I want to keep my 170 and tune it. I saw a post on Mustang 360 ( http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-...-a-200ci-inline-six-engine-for-todays-driving) and want to tune my 170 to have about the same amount of power like around 200. I wanted to know if anyone knew a place where I can have this done in SoCal.

Edit: I want to do something like this as in California there are things that cars newer then 1975 have to pass such as smog, so I want to get the most out of Mustang and be unique at the same time like with my 170 or maybe another inline 6.
 

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Dimples
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I don’t have any SoCal connections for you, but I can say that you’re signing up for a challenging and very expensive adventure by hot rodding a six. That Vintage Inlines head has only had one low-volume production run (as far as I know) and therefore very difficult to get ahold of. Plus, it’s over $2,000 if you can find it.

I love and respect a hot rodded straight six, but could never in good conscience recommend doing it. People do V8 swaps because they’re much more tunable and ultimately more affordable in the long run.

If you’ve got the budget and desire, I wish you luck. And post pics because they look cool. :)
 

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You could swap in a 250 block and use a modded 170, 200, or 250 head and create a torque-monster with INSTANTLY 80 more cubic inches with the same appearance of the 170. That would surprise some people. And you could Concours restore the 170 to slip back in when you have gray ear hair like me.
Clifford Performance was at one time THE place to go big on 6 performance.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
I don’t have any SoCal connections for you, but I can say that you’re signing up for a challenging and very expensive adventure by hot rodding a six. That Vintage Inlines head has only had one low-volume production run (as far as I know) and therefore very difficult to get ahold of. Plus, it’s over $2,000 if you can find it.

I love and respect a hot rodded straight six, but could never in good conscience recommend doing it. People do V8 swaps because they’re much more tunable and ultimately more affordable in the long run.

If you’ve got the budget and desire, I wish you luck. And post pics because they look cool. :)
I know which headers you are talking about but is there any other ways I can improve to get those hp numbers besides turbo and supercharging. I was not planning on getting those specifically as I was willing to adjust other parts of the build as that part is probably the most difficult to obtain.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You could swap in a 250 block and use a modded 170, 200, or 250 head and create a torque-monster with INSTANTLY 80 more cubic inches with the same appearance of the 170. That would surprise some people. And you could Concours restore the 170 to slip back in when you have gray ear hair like me.
Clifford Performance was at one time THE place to go big on 6 performance.
How hard would a 250 swap be because at the same time I want to do it on a budget or boost the performance of my 170 for the cheapest I can as this is my first time attempting something this big. Oh, I get what you mean and save the 170 and put it back in in the future if I choose to.
 

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The 250 is just about a direct swap, adds 80 cubes, is a 7 main bearing engine (very stable) can be bored, can be custom stroked, head can be ported and port matched, can have custom 2 or 4 barrel carbs swapped, electronic ignition, and yeah it could be turbocharged, supercharged, intercooled...
Buuuuuut... Aside from the cool factor it will still cost more than a comparable V8 swap and you can do the same stuff to a V8 bit by bit, plus a heavily-modded 6 can break the same stuff a V8 would, like trans input shafts, u-joints, rear diffs... and it would weigh a little more, though not quite as much naturally-aspirated, as a V8. And that necessitates better brakes, front springs, steering components, rear leafs...for safety.
The other VMF members ' posts are just suggesting that for the price of a salvage yard swap to V8 components (like a carbureted GT40-P 5.0 roller cam V8 and an Explorer 8.8 rear) to compliment the V8 suspension, brakes and steering, you "could'a had a V8" .
Buuuuuuut... a 6 is different, saves fuel, maybe has lower insurance, and there's something cool about a 6 that throat-punches the unsuspecting Hyundai driver at the interstate merge, too.
I prefer the 8, but I helped build a 250-6 once for a buddy's '68 that was pretty impressive with a healthy C4 auto behind it.
Aaaaaaaand... anything you do can be unbolted later and you can return it to 170 Pawpaw duty. It's just money, time and work. 6 or 8? That's up to you!
 

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This is a big dollar build. Remember these writers decide they need/want a motor and write an article when they find a dealer(s) that will comp them the parts to write up the build - a month of free advertising. Normally, you will never see a real evaluation in these articles as the writers enjoy a steady stream of parts coming into their garage so they glow about the parts they get no matter how the motor turns out. These are not reviews but commercials for the vendor and a true dream scam for the writers. I have a friend that does this for a living and does well flipping performance cars on the side.

That said, they are starting with a 200 block so you basically will have to start from zero with a new block to build this motor and the cost will be significant. All that said, if you told any performance oriented V8 Mustang owner they could only have 200 hp, they would cry - openly weap. You need close to 300 hp plus to make a 3000 pound car step out in a way that will put a smile on your face. We havn't talked about the rear end ratio and limited slip which is very rare on 6 cylinder cars so dropping the ratio which will make it more agile and adding limited slip to put the power to both wheels is a tough and expensive custom option. So, in the end I believe you will spend a lot of money and perhaps be quite disappointed. On the other hand, it would be a unique car and there is the potential that on an autocross course with a torquy and light 6 cylinder perhaps there is an argument to be made, I'm just not smart enough to make it.

Then there is the issue of resale, you will want to get the $5-6k out of your build but how many people really want a hot rodded 6 cylinder. Anyone wanting power is going to buy a V8 so you are left eating your money unless you find the right guy.
 

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A couple comments about a 170 build and a 170-250 swap in a '65-66....

a. The 170 is a 4-main bearing engine vs. the later 200 and 250 which have 7 mains. The 170 isn't, by any means, not durable... it was even brought back by Ford in 1970 for use in the Maverick... it's just that the 7 mains give the crankshaft a lot more support for high rpm use.

b. The 170 is a solid lifter engine. I'm not sure it has oiling provisions to install hydraulic lifters so I think that would limit you to an OE head design to use the solid lifter rocker shaft and arms vs. the Aussie crossflow head.

c. Getting a little more "punch" from the 170 is tough with its short stroke. I don't know if an early 4-main bearing 200 crank can be used... Ford of Argentina DID make a 187 for quite a few years with the 3.126" stroke.... don't know whether there is a connecting rod out there to use or a piston with enough face to machine enough to zero deck the assembly...... my recommendation would be to upgrade the distributor to a later DurasparkII dual-advance unit and swapping the carburetor for a 1V throttle body EFI. That should provide a noticeable increase in power/torque AND fuel economy. Other than that, and sticking with the six, a later 200 (low-mount starter/large log head) build would be my suggestion.

edit... d. I think the 250 in a '65-66 has some "''height challenges" due to its taller deck height.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
A couple comments about a 170 build and a 170-250 swap in a '65-66....

a. The 170 is a 4-main bearing engine vs. the later 200 and 250 which have 7 mains. The 170 isn't, by any means, not durable... it was even brought back by Ford in 1970 for use in the Maverick... it's just that the 7 mains give the crankshaft a lot more support for high rpm use.

b. The 170 is a solid lifter engine. I'm not sure it has oiling provisions to install hydraulic lifters so I think that would limit you to an OE head design to use the solid lifter rocker shaft and arms vs. the Aussie crossflow head.

c. Getting a little more "punch" from the 170 is tough with its short stroke. I don't know if an early 4-main bearing 200 crank can be used... Ford of Argentina DID make a 187 for quite a few years with the 3.126" stroke.... don't know whether there is a connecting rod out there to use or a piston with enough face to machine enough to zero deck the assembly...... my recommendation would be to upgrade the distributor to a later DurasparkII dual-advance unit and swapping the carburetor for a 1V throttle body EFI. That should provide a noticeable increase in power/torque AND fuel economy. Other than that, and sticking with the six, a later 200 (low-mount starter/large log head) build would be my suggestion.

edit... d. I think the 250 in a '65-66 has some "''height challenges" due to its taller deck height.
So if I was to change it to efi, I just don't know how to work on electronics so I would have to hire someone. I wanted to know if that price of changing it to EFI would provide a rather good bang for my buck over changing it to a 250 and getting separate parts. The Height, also can't I just accommodate that with a different hood.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
This is a big dollar build. Remember these writers decide they need/want a motor and write an article when they find a dealer(s) that will comp them the parts to write up the build - a month of free advertising. Normally, you will never see a real evaluation in these articles as the writers enjoy a steady stream of parts coming into their garage so they glow about the parts they get no matter how the motor turns out. These are not reviews but commercials for the vendor and a true dream scam for the writers. I have a friend that does this for a living and does well flipping performance cars on the side.

That said, they are starting with a 200 block so you basically will have to start from zero with a new block to build this motor and the cost will be significant. All that said, if you told any performance oriented V8 Mustang owner they could only have 200 hp, they would cry - openly weap. You need close to 300 hp plus to make a 3000 pound car step out in a way that will put a smile on your face. We havn't talked about the rear end ratio and limited slip which is very rare on 6 cylinder cars so dropping the ratio which will make it more agile and adding limited slip to put the power to both wheels is a tough and expensive custom option. So, in the end I believe you will spend a lot of money and perhaps be quite disappointed. On the other hand, it would be a unique car and there is the potential that on an autocross course with a torquy and light 6 cylinder perhaps there is an argument to be made, I'm just not smart enough to make it.

Then there is the issue of resale, you will want to get the $5-6k out of your build but how many people really want a hot rodded 6 cylinder. Anyone wanting power is going to buy a V8 so you are left eating your money unless you find the right guy.
So no matter what I do it will be around that price range? Even something like a 250 swap?
 

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Dimples
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I know which headers you are talking about but is there any other ways I can improve to get those hp numbers besides turbo and supercharging. I was not planning on getting those specifically as I was willing to adjust other parts of the build as that part is probably the most difficult to obtain.
No, not headers, Andrew. The aftermarket head that the whole article is about. The one that’s impossible to get, dreadfully expensive, and the centerpiece of the build because the stock head is the boat anchor that holds a sturdy little Ford six from making any real power.

We have one member here who put forced induction on his 200ci 6 cyl. He ultimately swapped to a mildly built V8 and never looked back.
 

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The 250 I built was a 1970 engine I think, had the Duraspark distributor, and I incorporated it into a 1968 Mustang's wiring harness with an Autolite 2100, Lincoln higher-amp alternator (nice stereo), a custom header and true dual exhaust. The C4 auto was the next thing that had to be built, haha...
 

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I have decided that I want to keep my 170 and tune it. I saw a post on Mustang 360 ( http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-...-a-200ci-inline-six-engine-for-todays-driving) and want to tune my 170 to have about the same amount of power like around 200. I wanted to know if anyone knew a place where I can have this done in SoCal.

Edit: I want to do something like this as in California there are things that cars newer then 1975 have to pass such as smog, so I want to get the most out of Mustang and be unique at the same time like with my 170 or maybe another inline 6.
ok andrew a few things here;

1: classic inlines is no more. the owner died a few years back and all the inventory was bought by the guy that started vintage inlines.

2: the aluminum head is expensive and very ow volume. you can contact matt at vintage inlines and see if he has a run scheduled, or if he has any heads in stock, but other than that you are going to have to try and find a used one with the intake, also tough to do.

3: a couple of other head options are;
a) the aussie 250 2V head. yu can find those on ebay, or you can try contacting someone in australia to import one for you.
b) the argentine 188 sp head, it also has a removeable intake, so get the intake as well, but it requires a different header flange, so be prepared to make your own header.
c) the aussie crossflow head. it requires some block and head mods to work, AND the valve arraignment is different so you need a crossflow specific cam as well. again you need an intake and to make your own header.

check the tech section of fordsix.com, or classicinlines.com(the website is still up, but you cant order anything from it) for more information.

4: you can modify your stock head to use 3 one barrel carbs, two two barrel carbs, one two barrel carb, or get creative and put fuel injection on it. you can also install larger valves as well.

5: you can upgrade the cam as well, vintageinlines sells the clay smith line of cams, and they are generally easily available.

6: you can add a turbo to the engine easily enough, for a good boost in power.

you can build a 250 to make some serious power, in fact one member on fordsix goes by the user name does10s, because his 250 powered falcon that his wife drives in fact does high 10s in the 1/4 mile.

oh, one other head option, find a large log later model head and modify that. that is what i am going to do with my 170 for my falcon.
 

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Circa 1970 - 1972, I built a 200 6 cyl out of a 1966 Mustang with the 7 bearing crank. It was a beast, 13.85 in the quarter, and I would never do it again.

The head was the key component, and I bought a milled head with the intake milled off, and a (hand made?) intake that ran 3 carbs. The deck was also milled, and ran about 9.9 compression ratio which required leaded premium gasoline, which was just another option at the station. If I was racing it on the track, I used 100 octane, not really the best as it needed 10.5 CR or so, but blended with the 93 that was in the tank, it did OK.

The car had Hooker Headers, a single belt that would run just the water pump (no alternator) when needed. It had a 4 speed transmission using a 1967 bell housing, a 9" Ford rear end taken from a big block early 60's car with 15" aluminum rims on the back (L60-15's), and 13" A78 skinnys on aluminum rims up front.

Of course, it had Gabriel HiJackers on the rear, a hood scoop off a 1969 Mustang, white body with blue metal flake on the sides, racing mirrors, etc.

The front suspension / steering was not changed, which was a mistake, as at that speed and weight, the brakes were NOT adequate. The only saving part of the brakes was that most cars on the road back then did not have great brakes, so everyone stopped slower than today.

Listen to what people are saying: Bottom line, the cost of a 6 is not worth it, and if you truly did make it go fast, the suspension, brakes, steering, spindles, etc. is NOT up to the task. When I did my car, Mustangs were CHEAP (mine was free since it was wrecked), parts were cheap, and there as a ton of aftermarket speed equipment at speed shops everywhere. I also lived in Los Angeles, where everyone was modifying, fixing up, etc. cars, so there was a large technical base of people also.
 

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When I was at JBA in the late 80's my boss ran a yellow '65 coupe with an inline 6 in SCCA events. The entire
car was pretty heavily modded but the "bubble" wheel flares were the only visual clue. Don't recall if he had the
Aussie head or what..... the car was a terror from what I heard. Pretty sure he still owns the car.
 
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Discussion Starter #18
When I was at JBA in the late 80's my boss ran a yellow '65 coupe with an inline 6 in SCCA events. The entire
car was pretty heavily modded but the "bubble" wheel flares were the only visual clue. Don't recall if he had the
Aussie head or what..... the car was a terror from what I heard. Pretty sure he still owns the car.
Now this is something I would love to make.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Circa 1970 - 1972, I built a 200 6 cyl out of a 1966 Mustang with the 7 bearing crank. It was a beast, 13.85 in the quarter, and I would never do it again.

The head was the key component, and I bought a milled head with the intake milled off, and a (hand made?) intake that ran 3 carbs. The deck was also milled, and ran about 9.9 compression ratio which required leaded premium gasoline, which was just another option at the station. If I was racing it on the track, I used 100 octane, not really the best as it needed 10.5 CR or so, but blended with the 93 that was in the tank, it did OK.

The car had Hooker Headers, a single belt that would run just the water pump (no alternator) when needed. It had a 4 speed transmission using a 1967 bell housing, a 9" Ford rear end taken from a big block early 60's car with 15" aluminum rims on the back (L60-15's), and 13" A78 skinnys on aluminum rims up front.

Of course, it had Gabriel HiJackers on the rear, a hood scoop off a 1969 Mustang, white body with blue metal flake on the sides, racing mirrors, etc.

The front suspension / steering was not changed, which was a mistake, as at that speed and weight, the brakes were NOT adequate. The only saving part of the brakes was that most cars on the road back then did not have great brakes, so everyone stopped slower than today.

Listen to what people are saying: Bottom line, the cost of a 6 is not worth it, and if you truly did make it go fast, the suspension, brakes, steering, spindles, etc. is NOT up to the task. When I did my car, Mustangs were CHEAP (mine was free since it was wrecked), parts were cheap, and there as a ton of aftermarket speed equipment at speed shops everywhere. I also lived in Los Angeles, where everyone was modifying, fixing up, etc. cars, so there was a large technical base of people also.
Since it would be such a great task and expensive task. What would you recommend to do to make my Mustang much more able to daily and be a nice little quick car.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
ok andrew a few things here;

1: classic inlines is no more. the owner died a few years back and all the inventory was bought by the guy that started vintage inlines.

2: the aluminum head is expensive and very ow volume. you can contact matt at vintage inlines and see if he has a run scheduled, or if he has any heads in stock, but other than that you are going to have to try and find a used one with the intake, also tough to do.

3: a couple of other head options are;
a) the aussie 250 2V head. yu can find those on ebay, or you can try contacting someone in australia to import one for you.
b) the argentine 188 sp head, it also has a removeable intake, so get the intake as well, but it requires a different header flange, so be prepared to make your own header.
c) the aussie crossflow head. it requires some block and head mods to work, AND the valve arraignment is different so you need a crossflow specific cam as well. again you need an intake and to make your own header.

check the tech section of fordsix.com, or classicinlines.com(the website is still up, but you cant order anything from it) for more information.

4: you can modify your stock head to use 3 one barrel carbs, two two barrel carbs, one two barrel carb, or get creative and put fuel injection on it. you can also install larger valves as well.

5: you can upgrade the cam as well, vintageinlines sells the clay smith line of cams, and they are generally easily available.

6: you can add a turbo to the engine easily enough, for a good boost in power.

you can build a 250 to make some serious power, in fact one member on fordsix goes by the user name does10s, because his 250 powered falcon that his wife drives in fact does high 10s in the 1/4 mile.

oh, one other head option, find a large log later model head and modify that. that is what i am going to do with my 170 for my falcon.
So lets say my budget was expanded to much more, how hard would it be to build a reliable 250 that is also quick.
 
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