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I had been having some issues with my Edlebrock 1406 carb on the new engine and the old engine. The carb had sat around a little too long (6 months while the car was painted, a year when I first got it) so I think a few seals were dried a bit. I called Edelbrock to find out that there isn't a warranty after a year.

I was okay with this- when I talked to Ford Racing, a couple of guys suggested a Holley 650 HP. After finding out that the price was $700, I went with the Street Avenger 670- about half the price and they claim it is their best selling carb.

This new engine has only been up and running for a week. When I first installed the distributor, I turned the engine to TDC, pointed the rotor to the number #1 wire on the cap, and made sure I used the 5.0 firing order. After turning the ignition on I checked for fuel leaks- none. I then went ahead and fired the engine- it fired up almost instantly with no hesitation. I set the timing (it started at 13 advanced so I set it at 16), let it run for a while, and checked for leaks.

Everything was okay but it was too late to drive it. The next day I started it again- no problems- started fine (it did pop though)- so I let it warm up- now I will admit it idled a LITTLE rough- but smoothed out at higher RPMS- I drove it a couple of miles- no pops, misfires- nothing- it ran fine.

Today my new holley arrived. I installed the carb with the supplied gasket, connected the PCV, both fuel lines, kickdown, choke, and throttle- the only thing I did not install was the vacuum advance for the distributor- (tell me if this was bad).
Now came the time to start-I checked for leaks and let the fuel pump run until it filled the carb. I pumped the gas ONCE. Turned the key-NOTHING-wouldnt start. pumped the gas ONCE more-still nothing, except it ran with my foot on the gas, then a nice little pop (more like a spit) out of the carb and it stalled (oh $hit). I let it sit for a minute and tryed again- this time I did not pump the gas. It cranked, .then once it started I held my foot down on the gas a little, it stalled, popped again, although this time there were flames- about 8 inches- in the primaries (OH $HIT!!! ::). Turned the key off, ran and got a fire extinguiser and lightly sprayed the carb-luckily it was a dry powder. ::

Everything is fine- nothing burned except the flames scared the crap out of me...so.....WHY WOULD THIS HAPPEN???

The engine ran fine with an edelbrock but the throttle shafts leaked so I replaced it. I ran it a good 30 minutes over a period of 3 different days. The timing was at 16 advanced, the fuel pressure at 5.

I called a friend who is a mechanic and he told me to turn the balancer to TDC and check the rotors location to see if it is too far adanced- so I did- it is 180 off, BUT I probably hit the wrong stroke....

If it was in fact 180 then would it have run the first time around? The edelbrock carb did pop once (after I changed the timing) and it had leaks that I didnt like- other than that it RAN- really well. The holley popped twice and then entertained me with a nice little fire. I have had one other engine pop- that was because the dizzy was 180 off.

I'm pretty sure the engine is okay- the only thing that burned were the primaries on the carb- which they are actually just black- nothing else- would the popping cause any engine damage? Would the popping be caused by the lack of vacuum advance? Or is it too far advanced?

Please give me any suggestions....I swear I have never had so many problems with one car.... If it wasn't my first car it would be for sale... :p I'm sorry to keep bring all of these problems to the forum.... ::
 

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Glad you got the fire put out quickly. Pretty cheap lesson. I had the same lesson (cheap lesson as well) 45 years ago, and still keep a fire extinguisher handy on initial startup anytime a fuel line has been disconnected, or timing is suspect.

I'd go back to basics here, and focus on timing, firing order, etc. Your pointer may be off. Have you verified TDC on the compression stroke with the timing mark and rotor position? Also, your rotation is CCW, so re-verify firing order by following every wire as though it had never been done before.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Oh yeah..I'm big on fire extinguishers... :: (my brother had a welding accident a year ago) :(

I am using an "original style" 50 oz (for the late model engine) balancer from NPD- it has the same timing marks- it is basically a '65 balancer but it weighs 50 ounces.

The timing pointer is the original pointer on the early style timing cover. The first time I brought the engine to TDC, #1 piston was at the top, plus the engine fired right up, so I assumed that I had everything right.

Besides everything I have done, what is the best way to verify exhaust or intake stroke? (should I look at the valves?)

Thanks again :)
 

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Sounds to me like you have a combination of too far advanced and way too lean which would cause the backfire. You pumping the gas would activate the primaries squirting fuel at the same time it backfired causing your amusing fire ( I had a laugh imagining that visual having done it myself a number of times. Nothing like fire to make a man move faster that the speed of light! :: Check the basics gain... Timing air fuel and make sure they are spot on. Too bad you didnt live near me, I could help you with ll of this stuff. But I think that if you look at the basics, your problems would be obvious and easy enough to solve.
 

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There's several things that worry me about your posts. You really need to sit back, think about things, ask questions, and evaluate and digest the advice given. I don't mean to offend you, but you realy seem to "shoot from the hip".

First off, I cannot beleive that an Edelbrock carb sitting for even a year and a half had "dried out seals". What seals? One of the huge advantages of the Edelbrocks is they HAVE NO SEALS. It's a solid piece base with a single gasket at the horn. No power valves to blow, nothing. The Edelbrock 1406 on my '69 gets started about once every 3 months or so and is still perfect ... it's now over 3 years old, although I'll admit that was retired from daily driver duty when my son totalled his '65 and has only been sitting idle for about a year and a half now.

The next thing that worries me about your post is the 16 degrees of advance. I hear people setting their initial advance all the time to 16* or more. That's great if it's a drag car and you've spent the time to curve the distributor propperly. Otherwise, you've got WAY too much advance and is probably the reason you set the carb on fire.

Lastly, NO. There is absolutely no way you will do anything but set the carb on fire if the engine is 180* out on the timing. The best way to check that your distributor is set correctly, though, is to pull the no. 1 plug and stick your finger/thumb in the plug hole and bump the engine. You'l both hear and feel when the the piston is comming up on the compression stroke. At that point, rotate the engine by hand to about 8* BTDC and get the rotor pointing so the tip of it is just at the no. 1 plug wire location of the dist. cap.

Good luck. You're real close to having a very fun car up and running.
 

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take your plug out and put your finger in its place while someone cranks the engine slowly. When you feel the compression ( and you will) stop the engine imediately and thats your top dead center for that engine. You can also after this put a straw in the cylinder and crank the engine by hand to see when it stops going up and just starts to go back down. Also I would check for vacuum leaks as they will make your engine run lean ( like the leaking throttle plates did on the edlebrock) and backfire... Good Luck!
 

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Ha ha ha ha Great minds think alike eh Johnpro?? :D ::
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The next thing that worries me about your post is the 16 degrees of advance
Haha..unfortunately I do realize that this is a mistake- I just got done searching numerous websites and found out this is more than likely the problem... I will admit though, someone did tell me that Fords are okay going that far advanced- I guess that is not true...

Should the timing be around 12...or less?

I know I jump to conclusions a lot- it just seems that this time around with my car has been the worst. I had another '65 Mustang that would run great in any condition. Also- before my car was painted and I had a new engine, I didnt have any problems except a machine shop error.

Now, I am having overheating problems (due to timing, lack of airflow, and quite possibly a t-stat), carb issues, etc.

I do apologize for my behavior- my frustration level has reached an all time high and I have honestly considered selling the car..

It sure is great to have people like you with great knowledge... thanks again! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The backfiring wouldnt have hurt the engine...right?
 

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Nah.... would have been better for the carb had it farted instead of vomited but hey.. thats life...
 

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DO NOT get discouraged, and DO NOT sell your car! Ok, if you DO sell the car, call me first :: That's a gorgeous car, and you're going to have a blast driving it once you get past these last couple hurdles.

SBF's like to have about 36* to 38* maximum timing, especially with todays crappy gas. Find out what your total centrifical advance is, subtract it from 38 and set your intial advance to that amount (probably in the 10-12* range). Be prepared to back it off a little if you hear any pinging.
 

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Nah.... would have been better for the carb had it farted instead of vomited but hey.. thats life...
*LOL* GOOD ONE! I agree, once again, though. The older Holleys hated any kind of back fire, as it would blow out the power valve. The newer ones, though, no longer have the problem prone power valve of the old ones. I doubt any damage was done to anything but your psychy.
 

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You said that you connected the vacuum advance to dizzy. But from where, manifold (full) or timed (ported from metering block) produce very different advance curves. Full vacuum advance plus 16 initial is quite a lot.
 

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Nah.... would have been better for the carb had it farted instead of vomited but hey.. thats life...
That is TOO funny!!! ::

Do not sell the car. These "lessons" will make you that much more "seasoned" as a mustang nut.
Take the advise from johnpro and the others, let it soak in, make the adjustments, and ENJOY your very nice ride.
I also agree with johnpro, My car sits all winter long without being started, the Edelbrock is a very nice carb without having to mess with once it's set. (granted it does not make the same power as a holley, but it more than makes up for it in routine day to day driveability.)

Jon

KEEP THE FAITH DO NOT SELL IT
 

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Just like I said in your overheating thread, I still suspect you're one tooth off on the dizzy. It will cause backfire and overheating because you are 16 BTC. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. :)
 

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As long as you drop the distributor in with the motor on TDC on the compression stroke, it makes no difference where the rotor is pointing, provided you rotate the wires in the cap so it's pointing to the #1 plug wire. It could be off 1,2 or 5 teeth, as long as the wire it's pointing to fires the #1 cylinder, and the rest of the wires are in the correct sequence, the motor doesn't care. Double check everything and only make small changes, one change at a time. You'll get it straight.
 

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Did you set the initial timing with the vacuum advance connected. Timing should be set with vacuum advance disconnected. If so your timing might now be retarded enough to cause that backfiring. Just a thought.
 

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Two thoughts:

1) get a halogen fire extinguisher as the dry powder extinguisher leaves a residue that can gum up the carb. The halogen leaves no residue.

2) I had your same exact problem on the 66 coupe about 6 weeks ago. I forget the answer, but the problem bedeviled me until problem solved. I do remember thinking the dizzy was 180 out so I rotated it, and it turned out it was correct the first time. Had gas spitting from the carb, etc. I posted the solution here, but I just can't remember what the solution was. It was something not so obvious. There's been so many traumatic car experiences since then, they all tend to pile up on one another to the point I can't keep them straight. (LOL). If you search my posts over the past 2-3 months and use carb as a search term or gas as a search term, you should find a couple posts on the problem and solution.

I know your feeling well. Been there, done that, and hold the record. sometimes you just have to walk away from something for a couple of days. WE know that one little thing more and the car will be fine, but the car does not know that. Each problem at the end of the job is, to the car, the same as if it occurs at the beginnign of the job. No shortcuts work and no amount of emotional energy makes any difference, nor does the importance of the problem yield a quicker solution. Unfortunately. There should be a rule that all problems that last week of a project have to yield a solution in 5 minutes!!!

good luck and please post when you solve the problem.
 

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Wow, you've got so many replies you might not read this far down. But no one has answered the question, is it bad not to connect the vacuum advance. The answer is no. Vacuum advance is primarily for fuel economy -- it gives you a little more torque at low to mid revs, at a given throttle opening, than you would have without the added advance. What IS bad is if you left any of the vacuum sources on the base of the carb unplugged. Make sure all those brass tubes coming out of the base of the carb are wearing one of those little plastic or rubber hats you can get at the parts store.

Also, I'm probably not scientific enough, but I don't use timing lights and don't worry about my base timing. I just experiment with distributor rotation until the car can pull the biggest hill on the hottest day, floored and in top gear, without ping.

Adding my additional two cents to what everyone else has said, I second the motion to check your plug wires for correct firing order. Then you ought to be able to rotate the distributor to find the sweet spot with the motor running. Sometimes I use a vacuum gauge and look for best vacuum. The point being that you are not 180 degrees out, you are only a few degrees off, and you should be able to find the sweet spot with the motor running at idle and you twisting the dizzie. A new Street Avenger should be plug and play, so don't even THINK about messing with it.

7
 
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