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Discussion Starter #1
I’m considering the Borgeson power steering kit for my ‘65, and I have a couple of questions.

-Most of the install videos and write-ups I’ve seen tell you to cut the original steering column with a sawzall to aid removal. I don’t want to butcher my original steering box, so is it possible to remove the original steering box with the engine in place?

-I’m not a fan of rag-joints, so I would be opting for their U-joint option, however, I read one review where the guy said it transmitted a ton of hydraulic noise into the car. This seems surprising, and I’m wondering if anyone else has used the U-joint and noticed the extra noise?
 

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Benny, lots of folks don't like rag joints, but Ford put them on lots of cars for NVH and they work well. How about a newer rag joint or a eurothane replacement ? On the power steering, have you considered talking to Chock to see if he can help you ? The factory steering box is a more robust design than the Borgeson, and pieces are available. LSG
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Benny, lots of folks don't like rag joints, but Ford put them on lots of cars for NVH and they work well. How about a newer rag joint or a eurothane replacement ?
I’ve read too many firsthand reports of the Boregeson supplied rag joints failing, and as an engineer, I feel their back-up safety mechanism is a poor design.

if there’s an OEM quality rag joint that fits this application, then I’d be open to using it. I agree that the idea behind them is good.
 

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I put a Borgeson setup in my project. Motor was out so I can't kelp you with the install question. I can tell you I did not like the rag joint either so I replaced it with a Borgeson Universal and I do not feel any vibration through the steering wheel. I did also install a Ididit Tilt steering column.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I replaced it with a Borgeson Universal and I do not feel any vibration through the steering wheel. I did also install a Ididit Tilt steering column.
Appreciate the feedback, thank you. What about noise from the steering gear?
 

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A mechanical joint is going to transmit more noise and vibration than a rubber or poly joint. Your tires and suspension can damp only so much of the road. The rag joint does the rest.You can either live with it or you can't.
 

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Benny, i did the install but I wish I hadn't. I cut the steering column since it is nearly impossible to remove without dismantling the left half of the engine. (at least from what i read) the install was a pain. My box did not line up with my factory holes, and with the engine in the car It was very difficult to widen the holes to get it to fit. It would have been easier to rebuild my factory PS with the help of Chock.

As for the rag joint, I notied that the two bolts holding it together had started to come apart. There was a lot of talk on this forum a few months back about it so I decided to check mine. Lucky I did. I bought a universal joint but mine didn't fit. If I cut a bit more from my column it would have fit, but then the column would be too short to secure to the firewall. I decided to use the rag joint but tighten down the nuts with loctite. If you want a universal joint, I'll sell you mine cheap since I cant use it.

Seriously though, check out his website and talk to him Chockstang. It might be easier to keep your existing PS setup.
 
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I’m considering the Borgeson power steering kit for my ‘65, and I have a couple of questions.

-Most of the install videos and write-ups I’ve seen tell you to cut the original steering column with a sawzall to aid removal. I don’t want to butcher my original steering box, so is it possible to remove the original steering box with the engine in place?

-I’m not a fan of rag-joints, so I would be opting for their U-joint option, however, I read one review where the guy said it transmitted a ton of hydraulic noise into the car. This seems surprising, and I’m wondering if anyone else has used the U-joint and noticed the extra noise?
I installed a borgeson setup in my 65 a couple of years ago. I ended up cutting my old steering column shaft to get it out but other than that it was a straightforward install. I used a universal joint instead of the supplied rag joint because of the horror stories I read about rag joint failures. I also used Mustang Steve's lower column bearing to help support the steering shaft. As for NVH, I don't seem to have any vibration but there is some hydraulic noise I can hear through the steering wheel. It was actually pretty loud at first but I discovered the system was running extremely hot, probably picking up heat from my uninsulated Try Ys. I installed a PS fluid cooler and the noise got much quieter. Now I can barely hear it idling and moving down the road it can't be heard over my Flowmasters:) Overall this was the best mod I've done to the car after the disk brakes. It drives down the road really nice and parking lots are much easier on the arms.
 
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I’ve read too many firsthand reports of the Boregeson supplied rag joints failing, and as an engineer, I feel their back-up safety mechanism is a poor design.

if there’s an OEM quality rag joint that fits this application, then I’d be open to using it. I agree that the idea behind them is good.
The rag joints fail because you need a locking collar on the bottom of the shaft like the mustang steve kit uses to keep the spring located behind the steering wheel from putting upwards pressure on the rag joint. I bought the U joint, installed it and took it back out in favor of the rag joint, it just feels better to me with the rag. I've had this power steering kit in my car since the first month it hit the market with no issues, including the rag joint.
 
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Appreciate the feedback, thank you. What about noise from the steering gear?
To be honest, I did not notice any noise or vibration. More importantly, my mother did not hear any noises and she would have complained about it because she and her husband are the primary drivers. Of course they are probably close to deaf at this point :)
 

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To add to the conversation, I had a leak at the pinion shaft seal that was so bad I couldn't keep power steering fluid in the car overnight. I talked to the guys at Borgeson to get parts and learned that the seal is not to be done without shop equipment that I didn't have. I shipped the gearbox them, they resealed it and sent it back at no cost to me. I've been using the Borgeson setup for the last 6 years.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
My box did not line up with my factory holes, and with the engine in the car It was very difficult to widen the holes to get it to fit.

Seriously though, check out his website and talk to him Chockstang. It might be easier to keep your existing PS setup.
That’s interesting about your box not fitting. There was a Fastback on BaT a few months ago with the Borgeson set-up, and the installation invoice he included with the ad mentioned having to install the steering box 5 times to make it fit. I couldn’t get any more detail on that, but you may have answered that question.

Unfortunately, I don’t have a PS to rebuild or revamp. My car is a 19:1 manual steering car with Shelby Quick steer arms. Parking lots are a pain, and after hustling it through the Santa Monica Mountain with some friends recently, I’ve decided my current set-up is too slow and too heavy....I’m fairly fit and strong, but by the end of that day my arms were pumped up as if I had been riding a dirt bike!
 

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The Borgeson box I just completed installing also took a little bit of work to make fit. I knew I might need to open up one of the holes, but I ended up having to open all three.

The position of my box also ended up being set too close to the firewall, so the end of my column tube will not set through the firewall. I have a support on the inside of the firewall that will help support the tube. I will just need to find a way to seal the hole at the firewall.

My column is an old flaming river tilt column that I used with a TCP manual rack. It is the same length as the Ididit columns, which should be the correct length for the conversion.
 

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I’m considering the Borgeson power steering kit for my ‘65, and I have a couple of questions.

-Most of the install videos and write-ups I’ve seen tell you to cut the original steering column with a sawzall to aid removal. I don’t want to butcher my original steering box, so is it possible to remove the original steering box with the engine in place?

-I’m not a fan of rag-joints, so I would be opting for their U-joint option, however, I read one review where the guy said it transmitted a ton of hydraulic noise into the car. This seems surprising, and I’m wondering if anyone else has used the U-joint and noticed the extra noise?
Just remember that the reason they say to cut the original steering shaft with a Sawzall to aid removal of the old box is because the steering shaft from the "old box" goes all the way up to the steering wheel. If you're not planning on "butchering" your original steering box you'll need to source another column, such as an Ididit or a used column that has already been cut.

Yes, the steering box and shaft can be removed with the engine in place, typically by removing the steering wheel and front seat, then the shock tower brace/export brace and bringing the box out through the top.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Just remember that the reason they say to cut the original steering shaft with a Sawzall to aid removal of the old box is because the steering shaft from the "old box" goes all the way up to the steering wheel. If you're not planning on "butchering" your original steering box you'll need to source another column
My understanding is that the Borgeson kit only requires you to use, and modify the sheet metal outer column shroud.

The kit comes with a replacement inner column shaft, so the original steering box can be reused if it’s removed without the use of a sawzall.
 

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I did the Borgeson conversion on my 64 1/2 with the engine in place. The box fit fine, I used the ujoint and mustang Steve's bearing. I took the box out the bottom but needed to raise the engine to do so. I had to cut the column a few times to get the length just right. As far as NVH, I do notice some pump noise when the wheel is turned. It's not loud or a problem for me. Kind of pleasant, actually. I am using an Eaton pump, in case that makes a difference, not the Borgeson supplied pump. Getting the right brackets for the Eaton pump was the hardest part but I would absolutely do it all again. Love the feel.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 

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I installed their kit in my 1969 Mach 1 and never had to cut anything for removal. I lowered my exhaust and dropped the old box and installed the new one from the bottom. Everything aligned perfectly. Although they say that the 69 column needn't be shortened, I did have to remove about an inch from the lower column tube.

Once installed and bled, the difference was amazing.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I installed their kit in my 1969 Mach 1 and never had to cut anything for removal. I lowered my exhaust and dropped the old box and installed the new one....
Keep in mind the early cars have a long steering shaft that is integral to the steering box assembly. You guys with later cars have it good for removal ;)

Thanks for the feedback on the kit, it sounds like mostly positive experiences in this group.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I'm also considering the Borgeson kit for my '68, so I'll throw another question about it in here. For those of you that have it, has anyone used the washer kit (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/brg-899001) to reduce the boost, or if not does it feel over boosted?
That’s a good question. I don’t want mine to feel over-boosted, so I planned to reduce the pump pressure also, if needed. I read at least one review where a guy said he tried that kit, and it made no difference. That seems odd...

A friend of mine has a very nice ‘Pro Touring’ Camaro, and he sent his pump off to a guy who rebuilds and services them. He told him he wanted the steering to still have some significant feel to it, and the guy responded “I know exactly what you’re looking for”.

Overall, my friend is very happy with the results, but admits there is some slightly “notchy” feel at idle, because the guy had to pressure-reduce the pump at higher RPM, it introduces some funny behavior at low RPMs.
 
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