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Discussion Starter #1
Borgeson and new column fitted.

Drivers a lot better. Still have about an inch play when I turn right,the steering wheel does not return as well as id like. I am running 5 degrees of caster.

Anyone else in counted this and anything they can recommend
?


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Title says second box-
Not a surprise on these. The of shore, rebuilt, repo boxes Isuzu, Toyota boxes can be questionable,,
Non adjustable, NO warranty on adjustment?
 

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Unfortunately almost all of these aftermarket steering "solutions" are something being adapted, modified or pounding a square peg into a round hole solution and this is why I kept my factory set up.

My car was originally PS. I removed the PS as I wanted manual steering and it's wonderful feedback. The only modification besides fresh grease is a roller bearing idler arm. While the roller bearing idler arm does make steering slightly easier just getting rid of the rubber bushing that squirms around made a nice improvement in how everything feels. Simple and cheap. It's staying!
 

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I borrowed this from another site. Steering axis inclination helps the wheels return to there straight ahead position. The weight of the car actually makes them want to rotate back straight. Its not adjustable, its built into the design.
If you change the offset of the front rims you have changed steering axis inclination.





wheel_alignment_specifications_and_procedures_html_m35d84816



Kingpin Inclination Angle – It’s also known as steering axis inclination and is the angle of your ball joints or the relation of the center of the top of your MacPherson strut to the lower ball joint to true vertical. The kingpin inclination angle cannot be adjusted on production cars, but race cars can adjust this angle. If your kingpin inclination angle is off, parts are replaced. Kingpin inclination angle and caster both affect straight-line stability

How it works.

 

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Discussion Starter #5
Title says second box-
Not a surprise on these. The of shore, rebuilt, repo boxes Isuzu, Toyota boxes can be questionable,,
Non adjustable, NO warranty on adjustment?
The first box had a fair amount of play, borgeson replaced it under warranty.


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Discussion Starter #6
Unfortunately almost all of these aftermarket steering "solutions" are something being adapted, modified or pounding a square peg into a round hole solution and this is why I kept my factory set up.

My car was originally PS. I removed the PS as I wanted manual steering and it's wonderful feedback. The only modification besides fresh grease is a roller bearing idler arm. While the roller bearing idler arm does make steering slightly easier just getting rid of the rubber bushing that squirms around made a nice improvement in how everything feels. Simple and cheap. It's staying!
I’ve got a roller idler arm aswell


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I am told that the Borgeson Pittman arm is angled downward a different amount than the idler arm. This is why the return to center is off. Lots of threads on the internet about this issue.
 

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I am told that the Borgeson Pittman arm is angled downward a different amount than the idler arm. This is why the return to center is off. Lots of threads on the internet about this issue.
Not just return to center. That also fools with bump steer if both pitman and idler connections to the C/L aren't in the same plane.

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995
 
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I had to shorten the steering column on my 69. Once installed, it was MUCH better than original and I'm happy that I did the install.
 

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I'm pretty happpy with mine. Returns to center very nicely. I had some issues after cutting the steering column. You need to put a lock collar on the bottom to hold the steering shaft so it doesn't move in and out. Once I fixed that, it steers nicely. Only issue I have a little seepage from the power steering hose where it attaches to my factory pump.
 

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Love mine. No issues so fat. Returns to center just fine. Also had to cut the steering shaft. I am using a universal joint instead of the rag joint. Using mine with an Ididit tilt column.
 

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The way it works on these Boreson treads is half the people love them and say there's nothing better. And the other half can't get it to work right.
 

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My Borgeson is just OK. Certainly good enough to keep in place. I've reconciled myself to the fact that it won't steer like my 2018 Camaro SS.
 

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Love my Borgeson box. I too used a universal joint and the Mustang Steve lower column bearing. I have zero play in my steering box. It doesn't steer like a brand new Mustang but it steers really nice. Two things I also did was to add a cooler and to reduce the pump pressure. On my car the steering box was getting too much heat from the headers, a $30 cooler from Summit solved it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Feels like I need to correct the steering fairly regularly. I’ll have to re check alignment. But the steering just feels ‘ok’ when I push the car the steering doesn’t give me much confidence


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Maybe try different toe settings. I was chasing a issue on my car. I was playing around with toe adjustments. The issue which I suspected was worn rear springs and bushings.
 

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I have been running the Opentracker track spec alignment settings. When I had the Borgeson box, there was a little play.
It was an upgrade from the stock manual.

It's worth checking all the front end components
After that, also ensure that the UCA's are the exact same length. With the double barrel nuts, it's easy to end up with two different lengths.
Use the eccentric eliminator to make sure your alignment specs are staying put.

Are you using Streetortrack or TCP strut rods? What front end components are you using? What is your caster and camber? Toe in?

I have the TCP rack now. It's tighter than the Borgeson box. A few issues to work through, but it is more precise.
 

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The box should have little to do with how easy the wheels return to center. That is the steering axis inclination returning the them center along with the caster. Both of those together is what returns the wheels. I read these posts and some people say their steering returns nicely and some guys do not. If everybody is using the same steering box and one guy's returns to center on its own and another guy's doesn't, assuming both gear boxes are good, the problem is not the gear box

If you have changed the offset of the front wheels you have changed the steering axis inclination. All the different steering boxes on the planet are not going to fix that. The box makes it easier steer, slower or faster to steer or harder to steer to provide more feedback to the driver. It has nothing to do with the wheels returning to center. All these aftermarket trick parts do not change the steering geometry's fundamentals If you want the tires to wear correctly, the car to go straight down the road and the steering wheel return on its own the geometry of the frontend needs to be setup for that.

I still found a lot of people saying their steering is not returning to center after increasing the caster per Borgesons instructions. I wonder how many of those people have changed the offset of their front wheels. lowered their front ends or changed the diameters of their front tire. That all has an effect on the steering axis inclination that returns the wheels to center? That cool look is a trade off for the wheels not returning on their own.



Straight off the Borgeson website

STEERING BOX DOES NOT RETURN TO CENTER:
There is nothing inside a steering box or rack that will make it return to center after a turn this is solely a function of the caster setting of the vehicles alignment.

- No Return to Center after Power Conversion Installed. Customers who install our power steering conversion boxes may report a lack of return to center or some wandering on the highway. It is necessary to increase the caster on the left and right front tires to 3-4 degrees positive.

- No Return to Center Steering Feels Stiff. Not likely an alignment issue like above. Have customer lift front end and inspect all steering linkage for binding.

- No Return to Center erratic steering feel. If all components aren’t new it is possible that something has fouled the internal valve of the P/S box causing it to stick open. This would require manual input to stop a turn and to change direction and a very uneasy feel at the wheel. If this is suspected, have customer completely flush and then fill the power steering system with clean fluid and rapidly cycle the wheel left to right to clean out any obstructions.



This came from another site


Steering axis inclination (SAI) causes both front wheels to gain positive camber as the

Without any inclination, no self centering would occur. The Steering axis inclination (SAI) causes both front wheels to gain positive camber as they steer away from center. This acts with caster to provide self-centering of the front wheels. This gives the car straight line stability.


With the wheels in the straight-ahead position, the stub axles are almost horizontal.


As the wheels turn to either side, SAI causes the stub axles to decline and the ends. In order for this to happen the inside end of the stub axle must rise and this in turns raises the front of the car.


The mass of the vehicle pushes down on the stub axles, so when the steering wheel is released, the wheels are pushed back to the central position.


Without any inclination, no self centering would occur. The mass of the vehicle would not resist the wheels from being pivoted by the bump (Bump Steer). The steering would be hard to control and straight line stability would be very low.


Steering Axis Inclination Effects :
 
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