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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'm rounding the corner on ordering the final parts needed to stuff a top loader in my '67 and I wanted to get input on if I'm missing any parts. Yes, I've searched the forum for an actual TOPLOADER parts list and found nothing. Yes, I'm committing to a 4 speed over a T5.

This car was originally an I6 with a C4 that has since been fully converted to a 302 ('71 casting) with a V8 C4. It has since had power disc brakes installed (CSRP).

In my searching, there's parts that show up on websites that are never mentioned on forums, so I'm not entirely clear on what is actually needed, what doesn't matter at all, and what was already installed on every car. Part of my concern is I've read enough horror stories about people doing half-assed swaps who then complain their pedal pressure is too hard or mysterious rattles. I'd like to avoid those problems.

The basic stuff I'm pretty confident in.

  • '68 toploader out of a Mustang (with a Hurst shifter and correct bell housing)
  • 157 tooth 28 oz cast flywheel
  • Automatic Starter should work
  • 4 speed speedometer cable (different plastic gear?)
  • Clutch kit (McLeod Street Pro diaphragm style)
  • Fork and Boot
  • Current Driveshaft (Should work)
  • C4 Crossmember (Should work)
  • Roller pilot bearing
  • Block plate
  • Hurst backup switch (Link)
  • Hurst Shifter Bushing Pit Pack (Nylon or Steel Bushings, tbd)
  • ARP Pressure Plate Bolts (Link)
  • ARP Flywheel Bolts (Link)
  • Shifter Bezel/Boot (Stock bezel, Hurst boot?)
  • Clutch Pedal (Stock or Modern Driveline Removable Pivot)
  • Brake Pedal (Cut face of power brake pedal)
  • Brake and Clutch Pedal Boots and Bezels
  • Equalizer Bar Kit (Link)
  • Return Spring (Maybe? Link)
  • Clutch Pedal Stop (Maybe? Link)
  • Return Spring Bushings x2 (Link)
  • Clutch Pedal Support Bracket (Maybe? Link)
  • Greases, Loctite, Antiseize
  • Left hand pitch speedometer gear (thanks @Huskinhano)
That's my tentative list.

My understanding is the pedal support is useable, as is the brake pedal if I cut it down.

But as far as the under dash stuff goes, what already exists and what is needed? Does that support bracket exist? Or return spring? Are there additional bushings n whatnot that need to go into the pedal support? I'm not clear as to what is pre-existing that gets shared with the brake pedal.

Additionally, what is the benefit of the removable pivot on the clutch pedal besides ease of installation? Does it prevent having to remove the steering column or pedal support? Or does it turn a 10 minute job into a 5 minute one?

Shifter boots and bezels I'm unsure of. Are there bezels that will use the automatic holes in the floor? And will a Hurst boot (without the stupid H), work with a stock ('65?) bezel? I know the rubber boots can can tear with the Hurst shift rods, but I don't want to get too fancy with leather boots and billet bezels and all that.

Will I need different pedal support bushings? They were replaced when the power disc pedal was installed. Are bushings like this different for a clutch and brake pedal?

This is my list so far. The large components have all been acquired. It's primarily the linkages, bushings, and other small under dash stuff that I'm not sure about.

Help would be great. Optimistically this could be useful to people in the future as well.

Edit
I saw that this thread went up. Same question but less detail on the specifics than I need, unfortunately.
 

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You need a LH pitch speedometer driven gear. Clips to mount the speedometer cable. I did this swap on my 66 so I don't know if or how much will be the same. You will need to drill a new hole in the trans tunnel for the speedometer cable. There will be a dimple where to drill. It doesn't use the same hole in the fire wall as the C4 or 3 speed manual. The reverse light switch wiring go. You will need to drill a new hole in the trans tunnel just behind the shifter opening.
759700


759701
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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Good to know on the gear. I wonder if it uses the same ratio/color. I would assume so since 4th is 1:1. Fortunately this trans has a totally obliterated speedo cable on it so hardware wise I'm good.

I'll try to verify the holes but I don't believe '67 is dimpled anywhere on the tunnel.

Edit
Spoke to ole @happystang about it. It looks like the overarching problem is that the pedal "return" spring is actually the assist spring, which is mislabeled on every website. And when running a diaphragm and fully centrifugal clutch(?), you do not need the return spring. Which means I do not need the following.
  • Return Spring (Maybe? Link)
  • Return Spring Bushings x2 (Link)
  • Clutch Pedal Support Bracket (Maybe? Link)
 

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normal, for manual, there were 3 "clutch pedal" return springs.
One under dash, depending on clutch setup some (like me using Centerforce clutch) deleted that big spring.
However, there should be a smaller spring attached to top of equalizer bar to firewall on a brkt using same mounting hole as e-brake.
Then 3rd spring attaches to clutch fork.
 

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1966 Mustang Hardtop 289 4 Speed
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What are your plans for clutch linkage? Z-bar? or cable setup? Then there's the SD pedal roller bearing mod too. You came to the right place buddy, we'll spend your money 🤣.
 

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You are on top of this.
I'd get OpenTracker's full bearing z-bar set up. It will last forever, be easy on the leg, and comes with a more robust z-bar.
And, yes, with a diaphragm clutch you won't need the big "assist" spring under the dash. but you will need the other two small ones.

 

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Good to know on the gear. I wonder if it uses the same ratio/color. I would assume so since 4th is 1:1. Fortunately this trans has a totally obliterated speedo cable on it so hardware wise I'm good.

I'll try to verify the holes but I don't believe '67 is dimpled anywhere on the tunnel.

Edit
Spoke to ole @happystang about it. It looks like the overarching problem is that the pedal "return" spring is actually the assist spring, which is mislabeled on every website. And when running a diaphragm and fully centrifugal clutch(?), you do not need the return spring. Which means I do not need the following.
  • Return Spring (Maybe? Link)
  • Return Spring Bushings x2 (Link)
  • Clutch Pedal Support Bracket (Maybe? Link)
Yes, with the diaphragm pressure plate you "won't" necessarily need that assist spring. However, it's not a big deal if it be there. It does add a little more resistance to the clutch engagement feel. I left mine in, 'cause at the time (2010) I didn't know any better. I've since gotten used to it. Sounds like you have a good handle on this conversion.
 

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And, yes, with a diaphragm clutch you won't need the big "assist" spring under the dash. but you will need the other two small ones.
Which other two small ones? The MDL kit doesn't use springs.
 

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Which other two small ones? The MDL kit doesn't use springs.
The one from the firewall bracket to the top of the z-bar and the one to the clutch fork. ## 7523 (w/ 7542 bracket) & 7591 in the above diagram.
PS The z-bar is actually a bell-crank, but that's the name everyone uses.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Can anyone chime in on the clutch pedal? That's my last major purchase and I'm not sure if the removal pivot is a worthwhile investment.

What are your plans for clutch linkage? Z-bar? or cable setup? Then there's the SD pedal roller bearing mod too. You came to the right place buddy, we'll spend your money 🤣.
Haha! Oh I know. I'm optimistic I can keep overall costs "reasonable." Got the trans with the shifter for a really fair price.

I'm planning on just doing a Z-bar setup. This is the kit I ordered. I saw the diagram too but the parts aren't labeled which makes it a little tricky.

You are on top of this.
I'd get OpenTracker's full bearing z-bar set up. It will last forever, be easy on the leg, and comes with a more robust z-bar.
And, yes, with a diaphragm clutch you won't need the big "assist" spring under the dash. but you will need the other two small ones.

I believe what I ordered in the link above has the two small springs. Didn't realize Open Tracker made a kit. Are the two kits (linked and Open Tracker) supplying the same parts? Or do I still need a bunch of the basic stuff and the OT kit is a conversion? It's too late now, but something to do in the future. I've only ever driven one manual Mustang and it was a '66 with a 3 speed with worn out original linkage, so my baseline is kinda lacking regarding ease or potential weakness.
 

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Can anyone chime in on the clutch pedal? That's my last major purchase and I'm not sure if the removal pivot is a worthwhile investment.



Haha! Oh I know. I'm optimistic I can keep overall costs "reasonable." Got the trans with the shifter for a really fair price.

I'm planning on just doing a Z-bar setup. This is the kit I ordered. I saw the diagram too but the parts aren't labeled which makes it a little tricky.



I believe what I ordered in the link above has the two small springs. Didn't realize Open Tracker made a kit. Are the two kits (linked and Open Tracker) supplying the same parts? Or do I still need a bunch of the basic stuff and the OT kit is a conversion? It's too late now, but something to do in the future. I've only ever driven one manual Mustang and it was a '66 with a 3 speed with worn out original linkage, so my baseline is kinda lacking regarding ease or potential weakness.
i too thought roller pilot bearing were the way to go. But on my last tranny build was advised to go with a guality bronze bearing. This guy has been building track, off road and dry lake and salt trannies for 50 years. So I am a believer.
when you think about it, the only time the bearing comes into play is when the clutch is depressed. The remainder of the time the crank, pilot bearing and tranny input shaft spin as one. When a roller pilot bearing goes it eat up the input shaft which can be turned down and sleeved, but why even go there. Food for thought.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
i too thought roller pilot bearing were the way to go. But on my last tranny build was advised to go with a guality bronze bearing. This guy has been building track, off road and dry lake and salt trannies for 50 years. So I am a believer.
when you think about it, the only time the bearing comes into play is when the clutch is depressed. The remainder of the time the crank, pilot bearing and tranny input shaft spin as one. When a roller pilot bearing goes it eat up the input shaft which can be turned down and sleeved, but why even go there. Food for thought.
I've thought about it as well and heard differing things. I'm current getting a BS degree in Automotive Restoration Technology and spoke to the drivetrain/chassis systems instructor about it all and that was his recommendation. Dude's seen every weird automotive transmission under the sun. It's $10 and the likelihood that the bearing will go bad before the engine comes out is basically zero.
 

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Opentracker’s Z-bar kits are top notch. Unless you’re going to go with a hydraulic setup, the more Opentracker parts in your clutch actuation assembly, better!
 

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I believe what I ordered in the link above has the two small springs. Didn't realize Open Tracker made a kit. Are the two kits (linked and Open Tracker) supplying the same parts? Or do I still need a bunch of the basic stuff and the OT kit is a conversion? It's too late now, but something to do in the future. I've only ever driven one manual Mustang and it was a '66 with a 3 speed with worn out original linkage, so my baseline is kinda lacking regarding ease or potential weakness.
Every joint and contact in the OpenTracker kit is a bearing (or hemi-joint). That includes the z-bar mounts at the engine and frame. There is nothing to wear out (no plastic or soft metal). You can replace the plastic 'bearings' with hemi-joints fairly easily. Someone on here has a picture of what he did. @Huskinhano I think. If everything is new, the system works well. Unfortunately the plastic and soft metal "bushings" don't last long. You could purchase just the mounting brackets from OpenTracker. Example:
 

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Yep, I made my own linkage with rod ends. Very easy and cheap to do. The closest thing to a special tool was the die to cut threads but a cheap, basic kit from HF will do the trick if you don't have a set.

I left the stock nylon bushings in the shaft. I run basically stock clutches, I didn't think there was enough if anything to be gained. I just greased them up welk
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Discussion Starter #17
This is great to know. I'll add to my list of wants after I get this installed (or when something wears out/breaks).

The last part I need to order is a pedal. I know I keep mentioning it but does anyone know if there's an actual benefit to the removable pivot if you're running a diaphragm clutch without a return spring? Or will the pedal just slide in/out and it would be $50 for nothing?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Removable pivot?
Modern Driveline makes them.


My thinking is that if it'll save me from having to remove the support or column or something then it's worth it. If it's just to avoid that for the assist spring then I don't need it.
 

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Modern Driveline makes them.


My thinking is that if it'll save me from having to remove the support or column or something then it's worth it. If it's just to avoid that for the assist spring then I don't need it.
Never saw that before. No need to remove the support assembly. You will need to remove the round fresh air duct though. The pedal will slip in with the shaft.
 
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