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Discussion Starter #1
I have attended quite a few car shows over the past 3 or 4 years since I entered upon this restoration journey with my 66 coupe. The thought occours to me that at a few of the shows (MCA and non-MCA sanctioned) it seems like different rules of etiquette might apply. In Louisville this year, I know that I saw 3 different instances of large sized, sun umbrellas or sun-shades being used by participants at that show, and at others, and I am pretty sure that Augusta is an example that come to mind, it was posted that no umbrells or tents were to be allowed on the grounds.

Also, in the areas of "Do Not Touch" warning signs on cars, would one that says "Zippers*Buttons**Buckles Scratch! Unless You Are Nude, Please Do Not Touch" and it has a frontal view of a topless and very well endowed young woman on it. It certainly gets the point across and made a lasting impression on me ! Is this permissable at an MCA sanctioned show ???
 

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No, it wouldn't. No signs are allowed on cars to be judged, other than modified, unrestored, conservator, and I think, thoroughbred. That sign wouldn't be allowed on any car at a National or at my club's regional MCA show. Remember, these are meant to be family events, which means children will be present.

Besides, people never read the "Do Not Touch" signs anyway. They're meant for everyone else. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ok. I agree about the signs with the topless woman, and I remember seeing the ads in the Mustang Times magazine about the "Take A Kid To A Car Show" program.

Were you at the Grand National in Augusta ?? This sign that I am referring to was in the coliseum where all of the concours cars were being shown, and if I am not mistaken, it was on a white 67 fastback. It was positioned on the dash of the car and was very visible. Also,it was not a sign, placed in front of the car, rather I think that it was a magnet on the dash or on the door under the vent window.

What is your opinion on the umbrella thing I asked about ?
 

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Sorry, forgot about the umbrellas. No, there should be no umbrellas or canopies allowed within the show field. However, that is the host club's choice and responsibility for enforcing. MCA can recommend that that policy be followed, and I have done that in the past. I've also informed the host club at an event when I've seen a canopy go up (it wasn't allowed) and would do the same with a large umbrella.

There shouldn't be any signs of any type in the concours classes, other than the exceptions that I mentioned, and of course, the car card. For me, personally, if I see a magnetic sign on a car that I am judging, I will lift it up and look under it because it may be hiding a flaw. I actually have seen an owner attempt that once and I busted him for it. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Also, I would respectfully add that in the future, if signs or magnets are not allowed to be placed on vehicles, then the MCA should do something to stop people from being allowed to come around cars with food and drinks in hand. While we want people to come out to the shows, and are proud for the attention, it bothered me, while at the Augusta Grand National to watch the car of my friend while he was gone to the restroom and to see people walking around looking at his car while clutching a drink in one hand and a slice of pizza in the other.
 

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The signs and magnets are prohibited because it interferes with the judging process. Eating and drinking around cars isn't something that MCA can police, other then telling our judges not to do it. I used to be mildly paranoid about it, but now I'll leave my coupe for hours at a show and not worry. If something happens, it happens, and I'll clean it up later. It's not going to hurt the exterior, so it would mainly be the engine that could be damaged. I sure don't want Coke spilled in there, but I'm not going to sit around my car the entire time ready to jump someone with a drink. I'm more worried about baby strollers and parents pushing them while looking the other way. Should we outlaw those at shows, too? There's a limit to what we can do.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
What do you mean you can't enforce a no food rule ? Does the MCA not have the authority as to what is and is not allowed at the shows ? When you rent a building and it has concession stands, can it not also be included in the contract that food and drink is ONLY allowd in the area where it is to be sold ?? Do you have unlimited funds and time and resources available to protect the finsih of a car from a spilled Coke or a sloppy slice of pizza that had the cheese slide off of it ?? How about a canned soft drink that gets dropped and dents your hood ? I don't know about you and maybe I am too paranoid about my car, but quite honestly, a $10 trophy is not enough to make me sit back and accept what you say about the "MCA not being able to enforce any rules". I think that is a lackadazable (sp?) respnose and attitude to have.
 

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What you folks have touched on is very important in the car hobby regardless of a Mustang or any other type of car. MCA does have its rules and I agree that they should be enforced at every MCA sanctioned event. For those who don’t or won’t comply, it a simple process of point deductions. More important is the continuing education of the do’s and don’ts at a car function. Food and drink will always be part of a show unless it’s indoors and strict enforcement is done at the entry points. I have found that letting the people know in a polite manner about car etiquette goes a long way. Indicating that they are anything but good folks just fosters negative results. We bring our cars out for everyone to appreciate. We also have to expect that a certain percentage of folks attending are not at all car enthusiasts.
 

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No, MCA does not have the authority to say whether or not food is allowed at an event, other than alcohol, which is not allowed. We don't even allow clubs to use a sponsor that sells alcoholic products (sorry, Midlife). Beyond that restriction, the host club has the authority to decide what vendors they want at their show, and often selling food and drinks contributes to the financial success of the show.

I didn't go to Augusta this year, but I did in 2003 and I remember how crowded it got inside the arena. Normally, it's not bad at a show because of being outside. I hated how close the cars were parked inside in 2003, particularly with the crowds, which is one reason that I didn't return with my car.

The problem we have is that prior to a show, the show committee talks with the host clubs to iron out all the details and requirements. Then, we get to the show and see that much of what we approved didn't happen and it's too late to make changes. That occurred at Springfield this year with how the classification and registration was set up. Also, the MCA tent was not in the required location.

We make preshow visits to meet with host clubs to go over details and show layouts, and even then we have problems that come up at the shows. With a limited budget, it was decided that experienced clubs like the Augusta and Springfield clubs didn't need the preshow visit. And, that's when problems can happen. So, with rare exceptions, I believe all host clubs will get a preshow visit from now on.

You have to remember that with the exception of the editor and office manager, we are an all-volunteer (i.e., not paid) staff. Plus, although some people volunteer a lot of time, some do very little and don't even attend the shows. We can only do so much and so we have to focus on the larger issues and hope the pizza doesn't end up in the engine compartment.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ok, you are an all-volunteer body. That is perfectly understood. That still does not account as to why the MCA cannot make it a requirement that any club hosting such a show either have stationed "volunteer" personnel to rope off and maintain a food area, or help to supplant them with a budget to hire minimal security. I am an upper-level management official of a body that produces a very large venue every year with close to 500,000 people in attendance annually. We have over 190 food vendors, and we are an all-volunteer body also. We have instructed all of our volunteers to police their own areas to ensure that no food nor drink is brought into certain areas, and we have had no major problems from it. Politeness and manners go a long way in making somenone understand what the rules are at any show. You don't have to come off like Hitler or Mussolini and the Brown shirts and the Nazis to enforce a rule.

The MCA is the sanctioning body of their respective shows, and as such, they have a responsiblilty to help to protect the cars of the members that pay dues to support the organization. We also pay an entry fee to show our cars and it is not an impossible task to think that enforcement of a rood rule that limits food in certain areas and resstricts food that is sold on the grounds could not be imposed. I am not demanding starvation ! Quite the opposite, as I am a 10th generation Southerner and we are proud of our friendliness and our hospitality.

Stand up for us and stand up for yourself and help guard your investment.
 

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I would be in favor of a "no food" rule along with an indicated eating area inside an arena like at Augusta, but not outside. Many people bring their own food and drinks and we're not about to tell them they can't eat or drink at their own cars. There is a security team at every national show, but they're focusing on much greater transgressions that can occur. Honestly, I've been going to national and grand national shows since 1997 and I've never personally seen food or drinks dropped on a car. I do know that it has occasionally happened, but it was at local shows. Based on that, it's way down on my personal checklist of things to deal with at a show. I'm much more concerned about the guy who rides his bicycle into a show, or the rubbernecker who attempts to drive his car through a show, etc. I especially hate seeing dogs at a show, but nothing is done about that, either. I like dogs, but they don't belong at a car show. I've seen more dog fights at shows than dropped food.

Obviously, if someone starts a food fight, it's going to get shut down quickly, but otherwise, IMHO, it's up to the car owners to be wary of the crowd. Yes, if I see someone leaning over a car with a drink in hand, I'll speak up and so will others. But, we are so busy at a show helping with classification and judging that there just isn't time. And, that includes the host club.
 

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Been reading this posting with interest. I was personally in charge of organizing
three local car shows and was on the board, and a judge when our group hosted the
National Early Ford V8 car show. People, including members have no idea of the work
that goes into these events...all volunteer! In those four events we didn't have a single
incident. Ocasionally someone would unload his trailor queen and expect the
equivalent of armed guards around his baby! In some cases they would have a
hired guy to detail the car!
We quit doing this because our group lost money on each event!
 

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I just finished co-chairing the Concord CA show this past summer, as well as chairing/helping out with 6 local shows by our club. We didn't have a designated eating place nor did we have pizza on the front seat of any of our cars. I did have to remind people about certain rules, even though they were written out. In 2 cases, the owners had umbrellas opened. I reminded them about the rules and they complied. Really the issue of not knowing the rules apply more to visitors than to owners of cars. I would never have someone at the gate telling everyone the do's and don't's of a car show. There were enough of us volunteers to make sure that people were courteous around the cars. I would never want a car show to be part of a "police state". Shows are for having fun.
Stan
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I see that you are a member of the MCA National Show Comittee. Since you are also a member of the MCA Board of Directors. YOou say that you are in favor of a no food rule in an indoor arena area like Augusta. That will be a start. Now, get started on making that happen.

Next, you say that you are not infavor of making it a rule violation for someone to bring food and drinks within an outside area. Ok,if that is your position, then I encourge you to change the assenine rule about the signs on the cars in the concours areas. I have also been to shows where the concours cars are outside. What is wrong then with allowing posted signs by the car owner that no touching of the cars will be tolerated ? You will let other classes post no touching rule signs, why not allow me to place signs on my car and then tell me to remove mine during judging?? Do you honestly think that I have spent a ton of money restoring my car and that I would trailer it for hundreds if not thousands of miles to a show and would then try to hide something? I would then encourage you to ask me to remove it so that you may inspect the car and then I will replace it.

The MCA as the sponsoring and authoritive body of the shows has the right to stipulate what will and will not be tolerated by any club or by any member at any time during a sanctioned event. You certainly have the right to tell me that I can not place a small sign on my car, then you may stop anyone entering FREE OF CHARGE upon the grounds that you have rented and have control of to stipulate about outside food and drink being brought upon those grounds any time.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
How about using a common sense approach to the problem and post a few strategically placed and well worded signs on the grounds and at the gate reminding people to be respectful of the cars and the time and money that the owners have invested in them and not to bring food or drinks in the car area. Rope off an area and make it an attractive area to eat, drink and relax in. At Louisville, they had several food vendors, and the Masonic Home had a tree shaded picnic area with trees in it that the people (including myself) flocked to.
 

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I am a member of the National Show committee, but am not currently on the board. Next year, none of the shows are in arenas so the food question won't even arise. In fact, none of the shows awarded over the next couple of years are inside arenas. Those are rare.

None of the cars in the classes other than the specialized concours ones that I mentioned earlier can have signs, except for the modified class. The reason for not allowing signs is to make it easier for the judges to do their job. We don't have time to track down an owner to get them to remove a sign or other display from their car, as it slows down the process. When you have 400-500 cars to judge, slowing down is not what you want to do.

You keep mentioning signs, have you seen those fly around at shows when it's windy hitting cars and people? I have. I don't want them near my car. I'm allowed a display in the Conservator class, but unless the car is inside or on the end of a row, I don't put it up. Even then it's weighted down so it won't blow over. However, it still could get knocked down by people who don't notice it, which is why I won't use it if there are cars on either side.

Common sense needs to prevail at all shows, and there are announcements made about not touching the cars, etc. Louisville wasn't the only show with an eating area. The Concord show also had a nice area with hay bales next to the food vendor. Oklahoma had a nice lawn away from the cars. The vendors were along the edge of the lawn. I didn't notice anything at Springfield, but then I don't remember food vendors there, either.

With all the show committee has to focus on and stay on top of, dropping food on cars is way at the bottom of the priority list. That's something that needs to happen at the local level with the host club. We do cover it at the all day preshow session, along with about 50 other things.

I've been showing my coupe since 1982 at multiple shows every year. My fastback has been at more than 10 shows since 2003. I have never had food or drinks spilled on either car, although twice I've had people sit in my coupe without permission (local shows only). I'm not worried about food or drink damage, and yes, I have spend tens of thousands of dollars on the cars, and don't even want to attempt to count up the hours I've put in on them. I've trailered both cars more than 40,000 miles to shows since 1997. I'm not worried, and I'm very picky about my cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
With all due respect, you seem to miss the fact that I previously mentioned a MAGNET type sign, 3 inches by 1 1/2 inches that would be stuck by way of a rubber backed magnet on the car. I have never seen one of them blow away and hit another car. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT A LARGE DISPLAY TYPE SIGN EXTOLLING THE VIRTUES OF MY CAR ! I WILL GLADLY LEAVE THAT TO THE CONSERVATOR AND RESTOMOD GROUPS.

No, Springfield had no food vendors at that show. We had to either leave the area (and the cars) to go eat or bring it in from a nearby restaurant. Maybe that was not good nor bad..that is nothing I am in a postion to debate, but I can and will debate this one with you(respectfully). Food and drink are a vital and important part of any gathering be it at a car show, a county fair, or a goat roping. The food (ice cream, canned drinks and pizza) that I saw being consumed around the concours cars in Augusta was enough to make this an area of concern for me.

While dropping food and a full drink can on MY car may be at the bottom of YOUR very important piriority list, it certainly is not at the bottom of my list.

Instead of making excuses about why something can't be done, how about looking into what CAN be done ??????
 

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I agree with the protective concerns that have all been addressed. The tent thing seems to have skootched into the backseat of this discussion.

Tents are scary.

Our local MC did an event. One of the vendors had a small tent set up (10'x10' or so), and didn't secure it properly. (might not have known any better)

A gust of wind came along picked it up like a napkin in a tornado and next thing you know... the tent came smashing down on a "Very Cherry" fully restored convertible.

The car owner was out of the "show circuit" for over a year trying to get thinks back to the way it was. Many times matching the existing paint is impossible and the insurance company may not be the easiest to deal with.

I'm grateful that has never happened to me.

I truly think that the National shows have so many people involved from all areas, including MCA, that most issues never become a problem. I was at the Concord show and was thoroughly impressed with how that show was handled.

MIV
 
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