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Just some guy
67 coupe, 69 Sportsroof, 86 hatchback
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Not a real issue.
Says a man who lives where they don't know what humidity is. Humid environments and ethanol fuel sitting long term can and often do cause issues. Lord knows I've had to fix enough of them. And even in humid areas there are lots and lots of people who have never personally experienced a fuel problem due to ethanol. But most people only seem to have two cars and a lawn mower to deal with.
 

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Fair enough. Ethanol is fairly easily contaminated by water. If water contamination is your gripe, I can buy that. People seem to think it's some wildly unstable chemical, gasoline too. But they aren't really.
 

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Ethanol can be very much a problem for vehicles that aren't designed for it. My '99 YZF600 had carb. problems and sticking floats after sitting 1 NJ winter without fuel stabilizer. Now I take more precautions before I park it for the winter.
 

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LOL. I've let a car sit with ethanol fuel in the tank for five years and it fired right up. People love to blame ethanol fuel for everything. It's a red herring. Not a real issue.
I agree. @Acooljt I think you should look at the accelerator pump. Several of us have suggested that you check for a pump shoot. I don't think I have seen you mention if you have or not.
 

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Explain the chemical mechanism by which ethanol is not stable. Other than water contamination- which in my opinion is often operator error- what is it about E10/E15 fuel where it works out of the pump but not after sitting? I'm all ears if you want to give a scientific explanation and not anecdote and/or hyperbole.

I'm not a chemist but light geochemistry is within my realm of knowledge so I am not going to accept "ETHANOL BAD" just because our Boomer uncle hot rodders say so.
 

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Nobody said it wasn’t stable, it works just fine after sitting I’ve run lots of old fuel fine but it wreaks havoc on rubber. I didn’t believe the hype but being tired of rebuilding my boat, lawn mower, chain saw and weed walker carbs ever year cause I’m too lazy to winterize I switched to ethanol free and haven’t pulled any carb apart in 4 years. I am up north where there’s piles of humidity however.
 

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Ok it wreaks havock on rubber has very little to do with a carb. How much rubber is inside of a Carburetor? The fuel lines supplying the Carburetor yes. The OPs car works just fine once it's started and it seems that according to him it's not getting fuel from the beginning. Yet if he adds fuel it starts right up. If the Carburetor needed complete rebuilding it would very well after getting started. Waiting on him to answer the question on the accelerator pump. That's an easy fix.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Checking the accelerator pump will be my next attempt.
 

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Ok it wreaks havock on rubber has very little to do with a carb. How much rubber is inside of a Carburetor? The fuel lines supplying the Carburetor yes. The OPs car works just fine once it's started and it seems that according to him it's not getting fuel from the beginning. Yet if he adds fuel it starts right up. If the Carburetor needed complete rebuilding it would very well after getting started. Waiting on him to answer the question on the accelerator pump. That's an easy fix.
Where do you think that accelerator pump is? And what do you think the diaphragm is made of? Needle and pump diaphragm. 2 things typically with rubber in a carb that will affect fuel delivery. I told him at the very beginning of this to see if fuel was being pumped down the carb throat as did many others. And yes it is possible for there to be no fuel in the bowl due to a stuck needle and have it vibrate loose to then fill the bowl and run fine. Been there done that. It’s insane for someone who claims to not be a rookie with engines to be having this many posts on a simple problem. It shouldn’t even have been a post for an experienced engine guy in the beginning.
To quote jdub way back in this post.
Q: Here's my problem.
A: OK, here's all the things it could possibly be.
Q: It's none of the things it could possibly be.
A: ...
 

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Checking the accelerator pump will be my next attempt.
Depending on your results, before diving into the carb, I would check discharge side of fuel pump near the carb.
Where is your fuel filter?

About 10 years ago, in my truck, I bought cheap gas at one of the gas station around here. I started having problems with fuel delivery on a fuel injected engine. Ran normally after I changed the filter. I cut it open and found like a gray sludge. Looked similar in color to aluminum antiseize.
Never figured out what it was.

Never stop there for gas since.
Even my work truck.
 

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Agreed, no one said it was unstable. The problem has been mentioned, it's hydroscopic, and picks up moisture from the air, which includes gas station storage and transportation tanks. I can tell you it's not operator error, my motorcycle is garage kept and never ridden in the rain. In my case, it was primarily moisture corroding the Aluminum float seats causing them to stick.
 

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LOL. I've let a car sit with ethanol fuel in the tank for five years and it fired right up. People love to blame ethanol fuel for everything. It's a red herring. Not a real issue.
Explain the chemical mechanism by which ethanol is not stable. Other than water contamination- which in my opinion is often operator error- what is it about E10/E15 fuel where it works out of the pump but not after sitting? I'm all ears if you want to give a scientific explanation and not anecdote and/or hyperbole.

I'm not a chemist but light geochemistry is within my realm of knowledge so I am not going to accept "ETHANOL BAD" just because our Boomer uncle hot rodders say so.
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, and almost as unattractive as hubris.

Ethanol in and of itself is not a bad thing. We've been running E10 for decades, and while rare, problems caused by the presence of ethanol in gasoline have happened to us. Modern fuel system materials (I'm talking about the rubber and plastic bits) are ethanol tolerant, but some of the old stuff is not and will deteriorate rapidly in the presence of ethanol and other solvents. This is certainly not new information, and even a non-chemist can probably wrap their head around that.

Yes, MOST of the time, the gas left sitting over the winter is OK in the spring when you go to start the mower or whatever. Then there was the can of 2-stroke premix that went sour due to moisture absorption and microbes -- you DO know that there are microbes that can grow in gasoline, right? That ruined a little 2-stroke motor. Moisture absorption from high humidity will cause water to settle in the tank (steel), fuel lines (steel or aluminum), carb bowls (aluminum), and that causes corrosion. Corrosion in your fuel system is generally thought by many people (not limited to just us old decrepit stoopid Boomers who don't know nuthin) the be a bad thing. And that area where there's a mix of water and gas is just the place for bacteria growth.

I have zero issues with E10 gasoline for most applications. I don't use it for anything any more, simply because every vehicle I have running right now either requires or very much prefers 91 octane or better, and the local station we use just happens to sell alcohol-free 91. But I've used it since the 80s with very few issues. In fact, the Mustang I bought a year ago had not been run in several years -- I don't know how many. The 5-10 gallons of gas in the tank was still OK enough to run the engine for a few minutes, though probably about 80 octane by now. Was it E10? Hard to say, but around here... probably yes. How did it survive that long? I don't know. Dumb luck, whatever. Maybe they put stabilizer it it. However, it's going to the disposal place. Why? Because car gasoline starts to deteriorate as soon as you pump it (before that, if you want to be really picky). The lighter hydrocarbons are evaporating and after a few weeks you've got gas several octane points lower than it was when you put it in the tank. It doesn't get any better from there.

For the rest of you, if you're going to store the car for the winter here's an idea. Find a local SMALL airport - the kind you may not even know exists, which probably doesn't even have a control tower. Visit the FBO there (Fixed Base Operator, the business that rents airplanes, pumps gas, does maintenance, etc.) Tell them you'd like to fill a 5-gallon container with 100 low-lead AVGAS for a non road driven vehicle. If they're OK with it (most are), get some of that wonderful blue stuff. It'll cost you a buck or two more per gallon than regular pump gas. Run your Mustang or other car that's NOT equipped with catalytic converters or O2 sensors as close to empty as you're comfortable with, but very close to E. Now dump in that 5 gallons of AVGAS and drive a few miles to get it pumped into the lines and carb.

100LL is only called "low lead" relative to the older 130 octane aviation gas. It's still got a LOT more lead in it than the old leaded car gas did. I wouldn't recommend running it all the time -- besides, it's probably illegal to do so since there's been no road use tax paid on it. A steady diet of 100LL will probably cause some lead fouling over time. That said, it's GASOLINE, not gas mixed with a bunch of other things like benzine and ethanol and whatever other crap you're usually pumping. It smells great, compared to pump gas. If you spill it on your clothes it's gone in minutes without leaving a stink behind. Awesome stuff. And it won't go bad for at least six months. There is no such thing as "winter blend" AVGAS. The vapor pressure is about half that of car gas, so when it gets cold you just choke, prime, and start the damn thing like a man.
 

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Oh, OK, so I was right and it's not bad, and usually isn't the problem even half as often as people on internet forums try to say it is.

Yes, I know microbes grow in gasoline (and virtually anything else). We call that bio-remediation!

My point is that ethanol related issues may be possible but it's thrown around almost as often as "vapor lock" as a catch all, when it's not as often or severe as to be the cause of the sorts of carb problems people usually have.
 

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Just some guy
67 coupe, 69 Sportsroof, 86 hatchback
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I have two Edelbrock carbs in service. One I've had to replace the accelerator pump in twice, the other once. Ethanol, stale fuel, age, shoddy parts, combinations of such, I don't know. I don't really have evidence. Replaced a lot of pump diaphragms on Autolite carbs too over the years too though. Pretty easy to diagnose. Pull the air cleaner off and yank the throttle linkage a couple of times while holding the choke plate. Then declare "Hey, my squirty thing isn't squirty!" Takes like 60 seconds all told.
 
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