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Help! I was an "etched in stone chevy guy" who has crossed over to the dark side-my question is what is the deal on the 351 cleveland vs windsor? I wanna swap -out with 289 in with 351 in my 68 fastback plus dump the c4 for a T5(I know what I`m in for there)My question is what is the physical difference? bolt-in-wise, what years are the best to get? guys tell me that there are different sizes of block castings (webbing) to bellhousing,some for big-block c6s some for small block applications-I hear all kinds of answers. Is bolting in a cleveland with the hassel?does it entail that much more work if any vs a winsor installation? I have yet to obtain any drivetrain components and if somebody don`t set me straight I swear I`ll stick 327/muncie drive train in it!
 

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i could prob. answer most of your questions,people on here will bo better though. i do know that a 327 in a mustang will be problems. it will make the mustang,spit,sputter,cough and possibly cry its little headlights out. ford answers acoming!!!
 

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Hey - Welcome to VMF! There are a number of us who "go both ways" and own/restore other brands. I have an old MOPAR as well as my Mustang.

Lemmee see if I can help. There are a couple of hardcore Cleveland fans here and I know they're gonna challenge me on this, but IMO, the Windsor is the way to go.

The two engines are as different as a 409 and a 396 and share almost nothing except the same displancement.

The Cleveland is a wonderful engine, but they are far more expensive to play with than a Windsor. There's far less stuff available for Clevelands, too.

Consider that Clevelands were only produced for a few years - there just aren't many vendors catering to the C crowd. The W on ther hand is still being made and there are tons of inexpensive speed parts available. The conversion of early Mustangs to Ws is far more popular - so all the engineering has been done and the conversion stuff is cheap.

Again, there are a few folks here that love their Cs in early cars, but IMO, the practical solution is the Windsor.

The best years for Windsors are pre-74 and the best of those are the 69 and 70s. They have better heads, lower decks (more compression), and beefier components than some of the newer Windsors.

Whether you chose a Cleveland or a Windsor, though, the T5 is not the best transmission choice. Either of those engines will put out more power (if modified even slightly) than a T5 is designed to handle. If you want a fast car with a 5-speed, go with a Tremec. The conversion is a bit more expensive (several hundred $$ actually), but it is a much more robust gearbox and can handle the kind of torque a 351 SBF makes.

Assuming you are gonna do a Windsor conversion, all of the conversion stuff (engine and transmission) can be purchased as a package through any number of vendors.

I hope this information helps.

Again, welcome to VMF. You are gonna love this forum!
 

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in chevy terms the 351 windsor is like a 400 small block while the 351 cleveland is like a 396 big block. One is the biggest of the small block engine family and the other one is the smallest of the big blocks. Ford is not as clean with there engine families so many parts are not interchangable. It would be FAR simpler and cheaper to change from a 289 (windsor) to a 351 (windsor) than to try to convert to a cleveland. The city name where the blocks were cast was the easiest way to talk about the.

Long ago the windsor heads were very poor so they started to adapt cleveland heads over to the windsor block. These were the Boss engines also called clevors. Since then there have been several good factory heads and some even finer after market heads. The ford NASCAR cars run 351 windsor blocks and yates heads which are engineered after the cleveland head.

Again for transmission your better off with a windsor. Up to 1995 the mustang was using the 5.0 (289, 302) and some of the trucks had the 5.7 (351) so you can get a transmission out of one of those or a modern aftermarket transmission. The cleveland has been discontinued for a long while so there is little development for the aftermarket.

As for engine castings. I just read a page where they took an old stock junk yard 5.0 High Output and by just adding fuel and nitrous ran it up to 600 HP and it didn't blow up. They did change heads and valve springs but the lower end was stock. One test even terminated when 2 spark plugs burned out there electrodes from pinging so bad! Unfortunatly unlike chevy there is no cheap source for 4 bolt mains. To get around this they've come up with the girdle that bolts all the mains together. Ford also sells "Sportsman" blocks for about $1,000 that have thicker webbing. They only cast once a year so when they sell out you may have to wait till next year. Ford also has race block either in iron or aluminum that are 4 bolt.

If you put a 327 in a mustang i hope you love it because you will never sell it.
 
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Ah, this is a very interesting one, and have some insight. They are many things that you need to consider when you are looking at the 2 engines. Alot has to do with personal preference and how much money you are looking to spend. I have a cleveland in my 67 and know exactly what is needed. My brother has a windsor in his so doing both motors I know whats needed. The motor mounts are the same, the bellhousing is the same, the flywheel, balancer, pullies, radiator that is needed is all the same between the two. The one thing that is different is the headers that are needed. Hooker makes conversion Super comp headers which I have, or I believe now they make just regular comp headers for about $200 that will do the trick, but are just a regular header nothing like Super comps. The tranny belhousing bolt pattern is the same as any 289/302, I have a Tremec on mine, and also shares same 28 oz/in. balance on flywheel and balancer. On build ups it is alot harder to get parts for the cleveland, but the prices are about the same (as far as pistons etc....) and have found sometimes cheaper. You can get alot more power out of a cleveland for alot less money, just because of the head design. The cleveland is more of an RPM motor too, with its smaller mains etc..... Getting 450 horse out of cleveland is like getting 400 out of a small block chevy, not very hard at all. It's up to you, and how much money you want to spend, the Windsor has alot more performance out there now, if you were in Australia though, it's the other way around they've been building the Cleveland till late 80's (it's there windsor) but if you got the money getting 500 out of a Windosr is real easy with the right parts, mostly spend as much money as you can on a good set of heads (AFR's etc...) That is the major problem with windsors........ See how much money you want to spend whats available, and what your personal preference is.......
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks guys!I appreciate all your answers-I knew I came to right spot.This is a fantastic site! I promise no more "found on the road dead" jokes will be uttered from my mouth.Really guys--- thanks you been a BIG help
Steve K











"shortest distance between two points is a depressed gas pedal"
 
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