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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just got back from a track day at Portland international yesterday and the car ran like a champ other than I couldn’t keep it from getting up to 230 when I was getting on it. It’s always been a California car with AC and has never overheated before, occasionally she would get into the 200’s there but when it’s 105 out that’s normal.

So for the setup:
331
Air conditioning so it has the condenser in front of the radiator. I did take the belt off for the track day though so it wasn’t doing anything.
Champion 3 row radiator
Flex a lite fan and shroud
Tuff Stuff 1432 water pump

Advice on what to do to keep her cool when beating the crap out of her? Thank you!
791373
 

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Maybe it's just time to change your coolant and/ or clean the system.
Auto trans or manual?
If auto, add an external cooler, and open up or change the front valance.
If manual, maybe open up or change the front valance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It’s a manual. Coolant was literally changed two months ago so I’m not sure that’s it. I thought about doing a valence but not sure if that’s the direction I want the car to go looks wise. May need to consider just modifying my existing valence.
 

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Does it cool down after getting on it? I would feel comfortable with 230* after a hard run as long as it was cooling back down. If it’s at high speed, your shroud may benefit from the “blowoff” vents to let more air through.

Edit: Not vents but rubber flaps for the shroud Rubber Radiator Shroud Flaps | Champion Radiators

Rusty
 

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Buy a high flow water pump from Edelbrock and problems will be gone.
A buddy has a Shelby G350 he vintage races. 289 makes close to 400 hp.
He was constantly pushing water out of the radiator or boiling over while out on the track. On a first name basis with the track stewards and thats not a good thing.
Changed to the edelbrock pump. No other changes and overheating problems went away. You have all the air flow you could want at track speeds, more water flow, mo bettah
 

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Advice on what to do to keep her cool when beating the crap out of her? Thank you!
IMHO, Champion is not bad, it's just not great and assuming the rest of the system is in good shape I would call US Radiator... they will give you real advise you can put to use.
 
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Northern cross flow aluminum radiator with straight water and water wetter. Flow cooler water pump (BRA 1650) under-drive pulleys, no thermostat, but have a 1” reducer in the housing and no fan. The only time it runs above 200 is driving back to the trailer after a race at paddock speeds. If I put the fan back on I could drive it on the street with no worries.





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What are the specs on your radiator? It looks pretty stout.
 

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Ok, first let's make sure we're all on the same page.... you say it's getting up to 230, but is it puking coolant, actuallyoverheatingor just higher on the guage? What gauge are you using?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Buy a high flow water pump from Edelbrock and problems will be gone.
A buddy has a Shelby G350 he vintage races. 289 makes close to 400 hp.
He was constantly pushing water out of the radiator or boiling over while out on the track. On a first name basis with the track stewards and thats not a good thing.
Changed to the edelbrock pump. No other changes and overheating problems went away. You have all the air flow you could want at track speeds, more water flow, mo bettah
I already have a Tuff Stuff high flow water pump, I'm not ruling it out but I feel like the difference between the two is probably minimal.
What is the CFM rating of your electric fan? My 65 was overheating on climbs during hot days. I upgraded my electric fan to a better unit that could pull more heat from the system and my overheating issues went away.
It's a 2,500 CFM puller, but, at speed the fan should be irrelevant and it cools it down just fine once I come off the track and/or let off the throttle and take a 3/4 speed lap or so.
What are the specs on your radiator? It looks pretty stout.
Here is the radiator, really not much to go on... (64-66) Mustang 3-Row Radiator
Ok, first let's make sure we're all on the same page.... you say it's getting up to 230, but is it puking coolant, actuallyoverheatingor just higher on the guage? What gauge are you using?
It did puke coolant out of the overflow tank. I have a Holley Terminator setup and Speedhut gauges which both match, around 238 was the peak according to the data logs and around the time that **** spewed coolant out the overflow tank and got me talked to, lol.
 

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It did puke coolant out of the overflow tank. I have a Holley Terminator setup and Speedhut gauges which both match, around 238 was the peak according to the data logs and around the time that **** spewed coolant out the overflow tank and got me talked to, lol.
Is your radiator cap in good shape? If it’s worn out try a new one or test it.

Or is it possible your system was overfilled? WHAT PRESSURE RADIATOR CAP RATING SHOULD I USE? – DeWitts™ Direct Fit® Aluminum Radiators

Rusty
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Is your radiator cap in good shape? If it’s worn out try a new one or test it.

Rusty
Not sure, I'll test it, didn't think to try that but she didn't puke until over 230 so I'm hoping it's doing its thing but worth checking out for sure.
 

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Does the Terminator system and the Speedhut gauges use the same sensor? Could try a hand held digital thermometer just to make sure it jives with what the they are getting. Obviously not at speed.
 

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Just an FYI.
If you decide to go with the Edelbrock Water pump.
Take the timing cover off your engine. Mate it to the pump. Look at the water passages from the engine side in. You will notice that the Edelbrock will need a lot of porting to match the stock cooling passages of the stock timing cover. There is major restriction and creates cavitation. The Pump needs material ported to match the passage of the timing cover.
This can only be seen by looking at it from the engine side in. Which most people never do.
I noticed this during a complete rebuild of my 289. I contacted Edelbrock but did not ever here back from them.
Don't believe me.
Try it.

The stock pumps align with the timing cover passages. Go figure.

A side note.
It doesn't hurt to remove some of the timing cover casting flashing while you are at it. There will be a lot of it.

I ported mine with various grinding stones and a Dremel. It took a few hours but was well worth it. Just remember not to get any metal debris in the pump. I just stuffed the ports with rags.

Just sharing a tip. A few hours of work will make a huge improvement.
This was done on my 66 Ranchero 289. The next time I have my 69 Mustang apart I will do this to it also.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Does the Terminator system and the Speedhut gauges use the same sensor? Could try a hand held digital thermometer just to make sure it jives with what the they are getting. Obviously not at speed.
They have two different sensors on the manifold, they are a couple degrees different but really the issue was the overflow tank filling and spitting on the track so it was hot for sure, lol.
 

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From your post it appears you only have overheating (assuming the gauge is working) when at WOT (wide open throttle) and high track speed and not when simply driving down the road at highway speeds. True?
What is your highway rpm?
In addition to what everyone else has suggested, here are two WAGs:
1. Check the maximum spark advance. Take off the vacuum advance (oops, you don't have that!) and check the timing at various rpm all the way up to near maximum rpm. Where does it max? It could be that your timing keeps advancing and you have too much total advance at high rpm.
2. Some have reported that their electric fans and shrouds have blocked air flow at high speeds. You might try the shroud vents recommended by @rusty1161.
Good luck, and keep us informed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
From your post it appears you only have overheating (assuming the gauge is working) when at WOT (wide open throttle) and high track speed and not when simply driving down the road at highway speeds. True?
What is your highway rpm?
In addition to what everyone else has suggested, here are two WAGs:
1. Check the maximum spark advance. Take off the vacuum advance (oops, you don't have that!) and check the timing at various rpm all the way up to near maximum rpm. Where does it max? It could be that your timing keeps advancing and you have too much total advance at high rpm.
2. Some have reported that their electric fans and shrouds have blocked air flow at high speeds. You might try the shroud vents recommended by @rusty1161.
Good luck, and keep us informed.
Correct, only at WOT at track speeds, highway RPM is probably around 2k or so. I have the terminator system so my timing is fully adjustable up and down the RPM range based on MAP and RPM. At WOT she’s around 38 on the timing curve. I like the idea behind the flaps and or removing the shroud completely, it was necessary in California but probably not here in WA. I’m thinking my radiator could probably be upgraded as well and give it a go. If it does it again I can try timing but I tuned it on a dyno and she was happy at 38. Thanks!
 
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Just an FYI.
If you decide to go with the Edelbrock Water pump.
Take the timing cover off your engine. Mate it to the pump. Look at the water passages from the engine side in. You will notice that the Edelbrock will need a lot of porting to match the stock cooling passages of the stock timing cover. There is major restriction and creates cavitation. The Pump needs material ported to match the passage of the timing cover.
This can only be seen by looking at it from the engine side in. Which most people never do.
I noticed this during a complete rebuild of my 289. I contacted Edelbrock but did not ever here back from them.
Don't believe me.
Try it.

The stock pumps align with the timing cover passages. Go figure.

A side note.
It doesn't hurt to remove some of the timing cover casting flashing while you are at it. There will be a lot of it.

I ported mine with various grinding stones and a Dremel. It took a few hours but was well worth it. Just remember not to get any metal debris in the pump. I just stuffed the ports with rags.

Just sharing a tip. A few hours of work will make a huge improvement.
This was done on my 66 Ranchero 289. The next time I have my 69 Mustang apart I will do this to it also.
Absolutely RIGHT!!!!!! It's still amazes me that after 40 years of building the same pump they STILL do not have it right!
 

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Correct, only at WOT at track speeds, highway RPM is probably around 2k or so. I have the terminator system so my timing is fully adjustable up and down the RPM range based on MAP and RPM. At WOT she’s around 38 on the timing curve. I like the idea behind the flaps and or removing the shroud completely, it was necessary in California but probably not here in WA. I’m thinking my radiator could probably be upgraded as well and give it a go. If it does it again I can try timing but I tuned it on a dyno and she was happy at 38. Thanks!
This may be a bit of a crazy idea, but ... next time you're at the track remove the fan and shroud and see if the car overheats. That will answer you question.
 
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