WOW, just, wow. I feel so bad for that car, it was probably a nice 390 car to start with. The suspension is a mess, whats with that stance if you're NOT going to add four wheel drive ? The hood doesn't close ? The trunk lid is crooked ? I would have to think the builder is embarrassed. If they aren't, they should be. when I looked, the bids were 49K something. Icertainly wouldn't pay you anything CLOSE to that for such a poor job. And whats the fascination with Coyote power ? A Cleveland, and FE, and a Lima can ALL make as much power or more, and they all fit an early Stang a heckuva lot easier ! Expalin Coyote fever, please. LSG
Posts by LSG
1 - 9 of 97 Posts
Angry, I'm just not feeling it on the Coyote. I'm looking at head flow as an easy illustration. 351C-4V- 295~300, do some quick bowl blending and you're at 325. Coyote is 285, alttle porting and you've got 315 cfm. Power potential is roughly 2.2 times cfm for a V8. So.....LOTS of painful surgery to install an engine with LESS power potential than I already have ?? why ?! And thats with old, iron cylinderheads designed in 1968. Some of the newer aluminum heads, like CHI in Australia, flow EVEN MORE. AND they almost drop right into the chassis as it is now. A TKO is also an easy fit. A C, an FE, or a Lima can all be built to spin 7500. Been there, done that. I just don't see the need. A well built early V8, with a lower rpm limit in mind, like 6500 or so, will easily yield a much more driver friendly experience. At least, they do for me. Before I retired, I got to get my hands dirty on all knids of stuff. But we didn't do alot of 4.6 build - ups. Folks just weren't interested. There were a couple, but the only one with close to the power of the early ones was a guy with a supercharger. I'll stick to the mid to late sixties designs, thanks. BUT if I see any cheap coyotes for sale, I'll tell y'all. But I will also try to talk you out of it ! LSG
Okay, with the confession that I am not shopping, what is fascination with installing sailing equipment into the early Mustangs ? I don't get it. First, one has to remove the problem, THEN you have to repair all of the damage done to cause the problem in the first place. Whats up with the 'BAT' people. Whats the Coyote fascination ? Educate me. LSG
Angry, okay, so went back and read #12. I will refer YOU to #14. ANYTHING that a Coyote can do, the early engines can do, for a whole lot less, and without damaging surgery needed to make it all fit. If you WANT 20+ mpg and 500 hp, you can have it. And for alot less money than a Coyote swap. You are falling for the hype and mistique. 'Its all smoke and mirrors', says the angry old man, as he shakes his fist ! 
Interesting that ford chose that name, Coyote. Where I live, a coyote is considered a pest, and you can shoot them anytime.
HvsTool, you are mistaken, this IS a fun thread ! Its all a matter of perspective. LSG
Interesting that ford chose that name, Coyote. Where I live, a coyote is considered a pest, and you can shoot them anytime.HvsTool, you are mistaken, this IS a fun thread ! Its all a matter of perspective. LSG
Angry, I LOVE the old man picture ! Well, I've driven Coyote powered trucks. I yawned. Also driven 545 stroker powered trucks. And 462" stroker FE, and Clevelands. I just don''t see ANY andvantage offered by a Coyote. I also don't like the fact that you have towind the piss out of them to get the power. Now, that said, alot of the customer 'builds' were a disappointment to me, personally. We always had several guys a week asking for 1. 'the biggest cam they make' or 2. a very lumpy / thumpy / choppy idle. We built what they asked for. When a customer asks us for what will work best for them, the results are quite different.
If your car's front was already altered, okay, whats there ? Have you added any bracing or reinforcement to address the issues that style suspension is known to cause ?
MSM, I like that you chose the windsor, but would love to know why you chose the front end that you did. Who is Rich ? I would have questioned your choice also, and tried very hard to talk you out of it. LSG
PS My hair is not as grey as the man pictured, but I am substantially heavier, and have a full beard. Would that add to the angry old man aura ?
If your car's front was already altered, okay, whats there ? Have you added any bracing or reinforcement to address the issues that style suspension is known to cause ?
MSM, I like that you chose the windsor, but would love to know why you chose the front end that you did. Who is Rich ? I would have questioned your choice also, and tried very hard to talk you out of it. LSG
PS My hair is not as grey as the man pictured, but I am substantially heavier, and have a full beard. Would that add to the angry old man aura ?
Joe, well, the problem I have with some of these builds is folks are NOT using 'the best engineering and parts that money can buy' A Coyote or an LS is NOT the best engineering, and they're not even cheap. They're just 'new'. I'm not impressed. Now, if one of the mods could please insert here the angry old man shaking his fist picture ! LSG
Heres the angry old man shaking his fist......the reason the mod motors last well is because of computer controled fuel injection, an imrovement in oil, AND it is HUGELY because of transmissions. Because overdrive transmissions are in almost everything now, the engine spins less rpms on the highway. Now, Nail is quite correct, there ARE many LS powered vehicles where the engine is outlasting the vehicle. GM is changing these engines to compensate. BUT, if we look at the LS, what is it ? Its 50s design, thats what it is. cam in block, two valves per, and pushrods. The LS is basically a mirror image Windsor engine, just built by Chevy. Look at the 1.75 rockers- what else has rockers in the 1.7 + range ? Ford FEs and Clevelands and Limas. Look at the deep skirt blocks with crossbolts, and look at a '64 427 with crossbolts. Look at that those tall rectangle ports on the nicer LS engines- where have we seen those before ? the 1962 483 inch Starlifter FE engine. thats where. Nascar wouldn't allow it, so Ford released the heads as 'high risers' and sold them to drag racers. And you already know you can bolt the LS heads on a Windsor block, right ? You want advanced design ? Look at the 427 SOHC engine. Anything in a mod motor or a Coyote is 50+ yrs old news. Really guys, those Coyotes are for sailors !
LSG
LSG
And speaking of 'long lasting', I'm looking at the 7.3 PowerStroke in my 98 truck. I've been researching the 7.3 PSD since I got it, and have learned that at 350K miles, 80 % of them are still out there kicking it without major work. At 500K miles, fully half of them are still going without major work. Cam in block, two valves per, with pushrods. Try doing that with a 6.0 or a 6.4 ! Or a Coyote ! It ain't happening. LSG ends his rant, tired of shaking his fist !
Heres LSG, back after a good nights sleep, roaring back into the thread with angry fist wavings ! Have NOT left this thread ! Reguarding the 7.3 PSD, the important note is that is has only two valves per cylinder, the cam is in the block, and its a pushrod engine. I see a comment from Vegas claiming that the Mod / Coyotes have superior engineering- this is not so ! All of the engineering to have goofy timing chains and overhead cams on a production V8 were figured out by Ford in the mid 1960s- on the 427 SOHC engine. They were making 600 hp with this in 1964. The tech ideas in the Mod and Coyote engines is NOT new, or better. The reason Ford didn't put them into production at the time was because Bill France was AFRAID that Ford would win everything ( Chevy was not even close to competitive, Chrysler and Pontiacs and Buicks could have made a good fight ).
Someone ( Boss ? ) has a longevity article on Mod engines mentioning longevity, and mentions cylinder coatings. They don't HAVE cylinder coatings. I've rebuilt these engines at work, before I retired. They're just iron blocks like any other. Theres no special coatings. Among the rebuilding industry, people that actuall KNOW them, these engines are despised. They have a VERY troublesome history. They most certainly DO NOT outlast the 351W that they replaced. When Mrs LSG and I were looking for a pickup truck, we specifically searched for one wth a 351W. If there was a 4.6 or a 5.4 ( especially the three valve version ! ) we skipped even looking at that one ! found nice 351W powered 97 F250 HD, 229K BRUTAL miles on it from towing a livestock trailer. I had to replace the Idler pulleys and fan belt. No troubles. The trick to keeping a Mod engine happy in a pickup truck is to switch to, as the mileage rolls up, a thicker oil. When the bearings begin to wear slightly and oil pressure drops just a tiny bit, the camshaft phasers become confused. So stop with the 5W-20 and get 10W-30 instead. Then after a few more K miles, switch to 14W-40, then to 20W-50. When its finally rebuild time, get the straight-up, no phaser timing set from an econoline van, and reset the computer in the truck. Lots less trouble. And install inserts for the spark plugs. And those timing sets and phasers are brain hemmorage expensive. The Windsor timing set is less than $50. And the Windsor doesn't need any of the oil viscosity games to crutch it along.
One simply HAS TO remember that the pinacle of human achievement on this planet, engineering wise, was the creation and installation of the 427MR side oiler engine, and then installing it into a 1967 fastback. Engineering held a kind of a peak there till about 1971, and we have been going downhill ever since. We, humanity, are simply not as smart as we used to be. Don't know that we are able to get it back. I get the 'dare to be different' thing, I do. But I'd like to see more of us doing Dennis - type tower shaves, and maybe even pushed out farther, ALA the Boss 9. Then, use the resulting cavernous engine bay to install nicer headers on an FE with higher exit exhausts, like a Blue Thunder or a Felony head. THAT would be differernt ! LSG
Someone ( Boss ? ) has a longevity article on Mod engines mentioning longevity, and mentions cylinder coatings. They don't HAVE cylinder coatings. I've rebuilt these engines at work, before I retired. They're just iron blocks like any other. Theres no special coatings. Among the rebuilding industry, people that actuall KNOW them, these engines are despised. They have a VERY troublesome history. They most certainly DO NOT outlast the 351W that they replaced. When Mrs LSG and I were looking for a pickup truck, we specifically searched for one wth a 351W. If there was a 4.6 or a 5.4 ( especially the three valve version ! ) we skipped even looking at that one ! found nice 351W powered 97 F250 HD, 229K BRUTAL miles on it from towing a livestock trailer. I had to replace the Idler pulleys and fan belt. No troubles. The trick to keeping a Mod engine happy in a pickup truck is to switch to, as the mileage rolls up, a thicker oil. When the bearings begin to wear slightly and oil pressure drops just a tiny bit, the camshaft phasers become confused. So stop with the 5W-20 and get 10W-30 instead. Then after a few more K miles, switch to 14W-40, then to 20W-50. When its finally rebuild time, get the straight-up, no phaser timing set from an econoline van, and reset the computer in the truck. Lots less trouble. And install inserts for the spark plugs. And those timing sets and phasers are brain hemmorage expensive. The Windsor timing set is less than $50. And the Windsor doesn't need any of the oil viscosity games to crutch it along.
One simply HAS TO remember that the pinacle of human achievement on this planet, engineering wise, was the creation and installation of the 427MR side oiler engine, and then installing it into a 1967 fastback. Engineering held a kind of a peak there till about 1971, and we have been going downhill ever since. We, humanity, are simply not as smart as we used to be. Don't know that we are able to get it back. I get the 'dare to be different' thing, I do. But I'd like to see more of us doing Dennis - type tower shaves, and maybe even pushed out farther, ALA the Boss 9. Then, use the resulting cavernous engine bay to install nicer headers on an FE with higher exit exhausts, like a Blue Thunder or a Felony head. THAT would be differernt ! LSG
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