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Coyote swapped cars for sale

12236 Views 105 Replies 32 Participants Last post by  66_72stanger
Thought I would start a thread on this since they are showing up more and more on BaT. This one appears to be really well done. They left the interior alone.


Tire Wheel Car Vehicle Automotive parking light
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Nope, that's not @LSG either. 2 strikes in less than a week.
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While I agree with LSG on the Windsor vs Coyote thing, it might be that we are just too old and lazy to try it? @Anangryford bought a car with a MII front suspension already installed so no harm no foul going full gonzo imo!
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@Anangryford should have just put an LS in it and have been done by now............

I'll see myself out :LOL:
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That monstrosity that has been on eBay all year is now on BaT.
Coyote-Powered 1965 Ford Mustang Coupe
Vehicle Car Tire Wheel Hood
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WOW, just, wow. I feel so bad for that car, it was probably a nice 390 car to start with. The suspension is a mess, whats with that stance if you're NOT going to add four wheel drive ? The hood doesn't close ? The trunk lid is crooked ? I would have to think the builder is embarrassed. If they aren't, they should be. when I looked, the bids were 49K something. Icertainly wouldn't pay you anything CLOSE to that for such a poor job. And whats the fascination with Coyote power ? A Cleveland, and FE, and a Lima can ALL make as much power or more, and they all fit an early Stang a heckuva lot easier ! Expalin Coyote fever, please. LSG
BINGO. My thoughts zachary.
Edit: And just a year late to the party. 😁
That monstrosity that has been on eBay all year is now on BaT.
Coyote-Powered 1965 Ford Mustang Coupe View attachment 872233
I wonder if the trailer comes with it?

Plant Window Building Sky Mountain
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I could see that trailer as an AIR B AND B for a week, but not for the rest of someones life. My 3.5 ECO BOOST makes 480 hp but it is not very awe inspiring. Dollar value seems weak on those, meaning lots of engineering, time, parts, money, more time and money then you have a modern oldie? Guess it works for a few.
I could see that trailer as an AIR B AND B for a week, but not for the rest of someones life. My 3.5 ECO BOOST makes 480 hp but it is not very awe inspiring. Dollar value seems weak on those, meaning lots of engineering, time, parts, money, more time and money then you have a modern oldie? Guess it works for a few.
I autocross and get the advantage of the "wide body" on an old car that can't support modern tread width and be competitive in Cam-T, but does it need the Raptor FORD emblem in the grill area? Thats trailer trash wanting to be recognized as such, and I have given them that recognition!
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One trailer trash build that happens to use a Coyote should not reflect on everyone else that chooses a Coyote.
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I keep hearing people preaching about the beauty of the modern engine.

But when I work on them, or see friends working on them, I see sludge. I see plastic parts where metal should probably be used for better durability. I see fasteners that must be thrown away because they are one-time-use, in order to allow the original robotic assembly systems more precision in installation - not for allowing humans to make them better. I see problems with dissimilar metals corroding each other. In short, right off the assembly line, or after a fresh rebuild, they're great.

But there are many aspects that are not designed for longevity. Even the coatings inside the cylinders of modern engines ensure that they can't be rebuilt without great expense and difficulty.. Everything is as inexpensive as it can properly be made, one-time use, disposable.

The trend is toward fewer cylinders, cheaper designs. Not better designs. The improvements don't come from better geometry or mechanical genius - they come from refinement of fuel/air delivery, and combustion chamber design, along with better computerized engine management.

With less money, you can build a Windsor that will start easily, run smoothly, deliver blistering power from idle to redline, and do it all in a much smaller package. You can even get the same mileage. I just don't agree with the people that talk about 'refinement' in regard to the newer engines, unless you're talking about comparing a bone-stock 289 or 302 to a mod V8. But that's not a very fair comparison. Before you carve out the towers, rebuild your front end with a setup that has less travel, more geometry change during its sweep, and spend thousands redoing everything, what if you took a pair of modern aluminum heads (to get those better combustion chambers and runner design!), intake, headers, and backed it with an overdrive transmission, then fixed the front suspension with a few basic parts to improve geometry and reduce deflection and friction?

Frankly, that's much more interesting to me. When I see a car like that, I know that the person who built it, and hopefully the person that drives it, appreciates the original engineering. It shows that they were able to refine and improve on the original ideas, not just carrying around a sledgehammer looking for nails, and applying the 'solution' to everything they find.

The only magical thing about a 'Yote is the massive distance between its valve covers, and the fact that so many people put them in unlikely places.

Seeing everything vintage being "Yotified" is nearly as bad as seeing an LS in everything. To me it exemplifies a refusal to learn from or appreciate the wisdom of people who designed these vehicles, and it is a crude addition at best - very much in keeping with many of Wile-E-Coyote's ideas.
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You know what it is? These cars are like Crypto or FNT’s. Something someone created and assigned a value to. That’s it. Are you actually going to buy one to drive, no.
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There is something about vintage car building that most follow. Do you cross breed... Chevy in a ford, New tech into old, non period correct parts, colors from different eras, modifying the least sought out vehicles. A chosen few, love to be a gender bender, but most do not follow that thought process. My thought on this is that certain vintage vehicles have ALL the attributes of looks, sound, handling performance from back in the day. Most would not cross that line of personalizing a VINTAGE Ferrari, Corvette, Hemi car, Mustang that could have come with the ultimate parts from back in the day. There is something weird about cross breeding cars even if it is built with all the best engineering and parts that money can buy. At many car shows I have heard the comments ... Why would he do that? The most common answer is ... Because he can! Cars are built to be as unique as their owners. Love um and drive um while you can.
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Joe, well, the problem I have with some of these builds is folks are NOT using 'the best engineering and parts that money can buy' A Coyote or an LS is NOT the best engineering, and they're not even cheap. They're just 'new'. I'm not impressed. Now, if one of the mods could please insert here the angry old man shaking his fist picture ! LSG
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Joe, well, the problem I have with some of these builds is folks are NOT using 'the best engineering and parts that money can buy' A Coyote or an LS is NOT the best engineering, and they're not even cheap. They're just 'new'. I'm not impressed. Now, if one of the mods could please insert here the angry old man shaking his fist picture ! LSG
I just think it's too much work for not enough gain. I do enjoy my SoT suspension, 331, T-5, and Pro-Flo 4 EFI so I'm not a total stick in the mud.

Here's your picture "angry old Cal"
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That monstrosity that has been on eBay all year is now on BaT.
Coyote-Powered 1965 Ford Mustang Coupe View attachment 872233
What an abomination. 🤮
Joe, well, the problem I have with some of these builds is folks are NOT using 'the best engineering and parts that money can buy' A Coyote or an LS is NOT the best engineering, and they're not even cheap. They're just 'new'. I'm not impressed. Now, if one of the mods could please insert here the angry old man shaking his fist picture ! LSG
Modern designs like the Coyote are far more advanced than any thing from the late 60s. It’s like comparing the Soyuz to the Falcon 9. They last longer, they go faster and get better fuel mileage. They are engineered for a specific price point and market. Pricing is what leads to constraints. Still though that’s why we’re able to buy a 9 sec, street legal, pump gas production car from the dealer.
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Modern designs like the Coyote are far more advanced than any thing from the late 60s. It’s like comparing the Soyuz to the Falcon 9. They last longer, they go faster and get better fuel mileage. They are engineered for a specific price point and market. Pricing is what leads to constraints. Still though that’s why we’re able to buy a 9 sec, street legal, pump gas production car from the dealer.
Guess we'll agree to disagree. Different architecture, sure. 50 years newer, sure. More power? Stock, you bet.

Last longer? Fat chance.
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I built a Factory Five Cobra using a 2004 4.6L DOHC engine. I had read at the time, 2011, that Ford modular engines were known for lasting more that 200K miles when properly cared for.
Below is an article talking about the 5.4 Triton V8 which is also a member of the modular engine family. The 5.4 DOHC engine in the 2005/2006 is the big brother to the 4.6L is used.
.
One difference between the old Windsor and Cleveland engines and the modern modular engine family, the Coyote is one of the newest engines in the modular family, are the manufacturing tolerances and, as mentioned, cylinder coatings. The modular engine family is manufactured with much tighter tolerances, thus the need for thinner oils. Typical oil viscosity used is a 5W20 for street used engines.
For my Mustang build, I chose a 2nd Gen Coyote. I will bet a well cared for modular engine will easily outlast a vintage engine. While the article I reference is not conclusive, it is indicative of what real world owners have experienced. We will continue to disagree, however I have provided a bit of support for my belief, now backup yours.
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I built a Factory Five Cobra using a 2004 4.6L DOHC engine. I had read at the time, 2011, that Ford modular engines were known for lasting more that 200K miles when properly cared for.
Below is an article talking about the 5.4 Triton V8 which is also a member of the modular engine family. The 5.4 DOHC engine in the 2005/2006 is the big brother to the 4.6L is used.
.
One difference between the old Windsor and Cleveland engines and the modern modular engine family, the Coyote is one of the newest engines in the modular family, are the manufacturing tolerances and, as mentioned, cylinder coatings. The modular engine family is manufactured with much tighter tolerances, thus the need for thinner oils. Typical oil viscosity used is a 5W20 for street used engines.
For my Mustang build, I chose a 2nd Gen Coyote. I will bet a well cared for modular engine will easily outlast a vintage engine. While the article I reference is not conclusive, it is indicative of what real world owners have experienced. We will continue to disagree, however I have provided a bit of support for my belief, now backup yours.
The simple truth is, modern oils and fuel injection serve more than any other factor in modern engine longevity and reliability. When combined with a proper balance job and decent quality parts, even most carbureted Windsors can go 2-300k miles. Many of them do. I have personally driven a few to about 250k, despite absolutely flogging them on a regular basis. Some, admittedly, do not make it that long. =)

The basic design of the Ford Mod motors has always had some drawbacks, one of the major ones being their propensity to produce sludge. The plugs on many are also problematic. If oil change intervals are not meticulously maintained, the cam phasers are notorious for malfunctioning. In short, while the improved engine management and better quality synthetic oils do allow some of these engines to last for a long time, they are also legendary with mechanics for the seriousness of their breakdowns. Most of them cost about $4000 or more to rebuild once the cam phasers stop working, and they are a massive PITA to fix. Their timing chain tensioners and rails have problems. Their plastic manifolds leak, once they get a few years old.

The Windsor engines were never intended to last 40, 50, or 60 years; they were just a cheap solution, and Ford hoped they'd last maybe 5 years on average. But thanks to their simple, well-thought-out design, and the fact that they were built with the idea that they were to be worked on and maintained, they're still common today. They were built from 1961 all the way to 2001, and many of the early to mid 60s Windsors are still running. If you have a 1965 289 in your Mustang, it's 57 years old! The Mod Motor was designed to be disposable. It's highly unlikely that many will be in operation in 20 years, much less in another 40 years.

It's not just a failing of the engine design itself, it's a change in the focus of manufacturing. Today's vehicles are not intended to last. Quite the opposite. They are intended to be "good for now", and last just long enough that the warranty won't cause problems for the carmaker. The electronic systems installed inside frames, with sensors and chips that can't even be replaced will eventually fail, and even if you find a way to disassemble those critical areas in a way that would allow it, you still won't be able to find new parts - because they're not made.

Modern engines are built with exactly the same eye to ensuring that you will have to dispose of them, and buy a new car. Specialized cylinder coatings. Waterpumps inside the engine. Non-reusable fasteners. We are in a throwaway society - not a society dedicated to maintaining the things we own, and keeping them nice. How many people are shocked that we drive "old cars"? Almost all of them.

But there's a bright side to driving this "outdated technology". If the same careful attention to build standards is applied to a pushrod motor, and the fuel system is not allowed to wash the rings, there is no reason that a Windsor can't go many hundreds of thousands of miles. In fact, I'm betting on it with my latest 331 build. But if it does have a problem, chances are, it'll be something simple and easy to fix. =)
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The simple truth is, modern oils and fuel injection serve more than any other factor in modern engine longevity and reliability. When combined with a proper balance job and decent quality parts, even most carbureted Windsors can go 2-300k miles. Many of them do. I have personally driven a few to about 250k, despite absolutely flogging them on a regular basis. Some, admittedly, do not make it that long. =)

The basic design of the Ford Mod motors has always had some drawbacks, one of the major ones being their propensity to produce sludge. The plugs on many are also problematic. If oil change intervals are not meticulously maintained, the cam phasers are notorious for malfunctioning. In short, while the improved engine management and better quality synthetic oils do allow some of these engines to last for a long time, they are also legendary with mechanics for the seriousness of their breakdowns. Most of them cost about $4000 or more to rebuild once the cam phasers stop working, and they are a massive PITA to fix. Their timing chain tensioners and rails have problems. Their plastic manifolds leak, once they get a few years old.

The Windsor engines were never intended to last 40, 50, or 60 years; they were just a cheap solution, and Ford hoped they'd last maybe 5 years on average. But thanks to their simple, well-thought-out design, and the fact that they were built with the idea that they were to be worked on and maintained, they're still common today. They were built from 1961 all the way to 1995, and many of the early to mid 60s Windsors are still running. If you have a 1965 289 in your Mustang, it's 57 years old! The Mod Motor was designed to be disposable. It's highly unlikely that many will be in operation in 20 years, much less in another 40 years.

It's not just a failing of the engine design itself, it's a change in the focus of manufacturing. Today's vehicles are not intended to last. Quite the opposite. They are intended to be "good for now", and last just long enough that the warranty won't cause problems for the carmaker. The electronic systems installed inside frames, with sensors and chips that can't even be replaced will eventually fail, and even if you find a way to disassemble those critical areas in a way that would allow it, you still won't be able to find new parts - because they're not made.

Modern engines are built with exactly the same eye to ensuring that you will have to dispose of them, and buy a new car. Specialized cylinder coatings. Waterpumps inside the engine. Non-reusable fasteners. We are in a throwaway society - not a society dedicated to maintaining the things we own, and keeping them nice. How many people are shocked that we drive "old cars"? Almost all of them.

But there's a bright side to driving this "outdated technology". If the same careful attention to build standards is applied to a pushrod motor, and the fuel system is not allowed to wash the rings, there is no reason that a Windsor can't go many hundreds of thousands of miles. In fact, I'm betting on it with my latest 331 build. But if it does have a problem, chances are, it'll be something simple and easy to fix. =)
I disagree. From everything I have experienced, heard, or read, modern engines easily outlast the life of the vehicle. Look at LS motors. When I was a kid it was a rare car that make it to 1000,000 miles, now they are just getting broke in. I have a 2002 F150 with a 5.4 motor on the other side of 300,000 miles. Not sure exactly how far since the digital odometer died a while back. The current owner of my old 2005 Focus ST is at 325,000 miles on the original untouched engine. Modern transmissions on the other hand.......
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I disagree. From everything I have experienced, heard, or read, modern engines easily outlast the life of the vehicle. Look at LS motors. When I was a kid it was a rare car that make it to 1000,000 miles, now they are just getting broke in. I have a 2002 F150 with a 5.4 motor on the other side of 300,000 miles. Not sure exactly how far since the digital odometer died a while back. The current owner of my old 2005 Focus ST is at 325,000 miles on the original untouched engine. Modern transmissions on the other hand.......
Hey, old transmissions have problems too! lol ;)

Just so I am razor clear here: comparing an original Windsor to a new Mod motor of any kind (both in stock form) the Mod motor is going to last longer. Period.

But if you take a look at why that's true - the superior oils and fuel delivery of the new stuff - and apply it to the old engines, they last just as well or better. And when they have a problem, they are easier to fix. Any engine with proper balance, precision tolerances, and good design can last almost indefinitely when not stressed beyond their limits, and properly maintained. Heck, there's a 57 Chevy out there with over a million miles on it, and we all know that the original Bowties were no paragons of longevity.

So bragging that a Mod motor can go 200, 300, 500k miles? Meh. I mean, that's nice, but then again, when it breaks, is the problem going to be fixable, or worth fixing? None of my mechanic friends have very nice things to say about them.

And mileage is not the only ticking timebomb for Mod motors. As they age, a lot of their parts do not age well, strictly because of time. Plastic intakes are a prime example. When that stuff gets old, it's brittle, whether you've driven it every day or just once a month. Color me unimpressed.

I do have to admit, I'm looking at this from a different perspective compared to most people. My car is not a short-term possession for me. I intend to keep it for the rest of my life. With that in mind, I've made choices that will allow me to (hopefully) maintain it forever, and that includes not just availability, but my own ability to actually work on it. And with those things in mind, the Windsor's a clear winner for me.
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