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Discussion Starter #1
Well, I have found a very competent welder who is willing to repair my cracked Tranny case. In case you didn't get to see what I managed to do .....
http://homepages.go.com/~ful_throttle/disaster1.JPG

My bodyman/friend is a welder, and he and I will mount the tranny up to the engine (after preping the alluminum of course) and let the "pro" TIG weld up the damage. He said he will then remove the tranny, finish welding up on the inside as well if needed. $35 per hour with me and my friend doing the prep work. Hope it works out.

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I'm glad that you have found a fairly inexpensive solution. It looks (pic) like the trans would be hard to get squared up with the engine. It looks like the bellhousing is bent to the side. I hope it works out for you.

1966 Mustang Coupe, 302 custom roller cam, holley 650dp,http://www.289mustang.com
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Looks like a classic example of a torque converter not being set all the way in the tranny.... You should be able to slide the trans all the way up to the engine.. Make sure that you push and turn on that torque converter until it fully seats in. Usually drops in like 3 clicks.....

Did you just try to look for another bell housing??
 

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Is this a C4? If so, I've got one I have to get rid of and will let you have it just for the shipping cost. It's sitting in my back yard. Maybe you can use the case.

sure it's fun, but it's only a car.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
see 66shawn's post...this is what Happened I think. I was trying to use the bolts to slide the tranny up into place.

I get the doofus award for a while :)


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In the pice, I believe it is cocked because the torque converter isn't seated properly into the crank area. I must have got it started cocked and didn't notice.

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Well, it is a small-block bellhousing c-6... not the most common thing sitting in a junk pile. Also I JUST got the unit back from being completely rebuilt, I really do not want to take it back to the guy and have him gut it and then rebuild another one. I think this will be my best solution.

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Thanks but it is a C-6. I wish it were a C-4, then I could just change bell-housings :)

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Need a small block C6? Look at trucks! Anything from the eighties and up used C6's behind everything, even 6 cyls! They're as common as dirt. I've never had a problem finding them in the boneyard!

Tom
You can do anything you want to......ONCE!
aka "my 66 coupe"
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Hale Boppe comet shot off my roof. See you can use 100 iso at night with no flash!
 
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When I was rebuilding this tranny, I needed some "hard" parts so I went to 6 bone yards in a 35 mile circle. I only found one place that had ANY c-6's and they were all trashed...Cases busted and stripped clean. I live in a rural area and I guess they have already been picked over. I did manage to find someplace who would get one from "another" junk yard :somewhere" for $150 bucks....no thanks.

sometimes it sucks to live in a rural area. :)

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...make sure you get it...

As long as everything is square you should have no problems.

Make sure he spends enough time in preparation.

[color:blue]
1967 Acapulco Blue coupe
302 4V, C4, 9" 3.25:1
Torq-Thrust "D" 225-60-14
1968 PDB, Corbeau
LeCarra, Alpine in-dash CD
http://www.geocities.com/mlnielsen_67/index.htm
WEBSITE UPDATED 2/28/01
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hey Mike...
What he really needs to do it right is a mandrel like I built for adapting Powerglides to Ford engines...it's a ground mandrel that mounts in the main saddles and runs to the rear output shaft bearing of the trans and has a plate that mounts on it and into the pump cavity bore on the housing...

That way you know everything is parallel and square....and concentric...

If you're off by as little as .015", you'll end up with excessive converter bushing wear and eventual leaks....I hold the tolerances on the race car engine to trans mating surfaces in this area to plus or minus .0025" because of the high rpm and stress loading the parts experience... That's .0025" TIR in any direction including concentricity...
Had to make offset locator pin bushings because the factory pins weren't within spec...

Likely that's overkill for a street app but just keep the principles in mind...

Pat
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Pat,

I understand where you are coming from. That is why we thought that if we used the actual engine as a "template" that we would be OK. My plan is to mount the Tranny to the engine and then Weld up the area that need the attention. IF we get the unbroken parts of the tranny mounted correctly, and then make sure the busted off piece is mounted flush as well, then it should all fall into place.

I do realize that is in a perfect world. It is CRITICAL that we get "all our ducks in a row" for this to work correctly.

What is your opinion on leaving the Torque converter in VS. out for this job?



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We are doing the prep work(my welder/bodyman friend and myself). Well...Actually HE is doing the prepwork :)
He is going to sandblast the parts, then grind a "V" groove into the broken seam so it will penetrate good. He was a welder by profession before he became the best darn paint/bodyman in Southern illinois. I trust him completely. He is the one who has looked up the person whi is going to do the welding and has the proper welding equipement.
It's good to have friends. :)

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I wouldn't use the engine as a template. Too many unknown variables that can cause problems. Plus, you're only able to use half the mounting bolts, so one side won't pull tight.

Pat is right, this needs to be within a few thousanths. I'd make a fixture for this. Can't help with a fixture design, but you want the flange to be perpendicular to the output shaft.

Drill out the end of the crack so it won't propagate. Fill it in with welding rod.

Deburr the tranny flange so it sits flat on your flange.

TIG welding doesn't create lots of heat like MIG welding, but should it be heat treated after?

Don't forget to account for shrinkage. When we weld 1/4" 316L tubing it shrinks about 0.015".

Don't know for sure, but maybe he should stitch weld first, then fill it in.

We've got two welding engineers at work. I'll ask their opinion. One worked at John Deere, the other at Lockheed.

[color:blue]
1967 Acapulco Blue coupe
302 4V, C4, 9" 3.25:1
Torq-Thrust "D" 225-60-14
1968 PDB, Corbeau
LeCarra, Alpine in-dash CD
http://www.geocities.com/mlnielsen_67/index.htm
WEBSITE UPDATED 2/28/01
</font color=blue>
 

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Given the parameters of your situation, I would agree that using the converter to help hold things straight would be prudent...

Be aware that TIG welding on this casting (including pre-heat) will put a tremendous amount of heat into the unit and due to the excellent heat conduction characteristics of aluminum, will likely cook the seals at the front....pump outer seal and the intermediate band piston and cover seals come to mind...

Personally, I'd disassemble the trans and just mount the front pump sans its outer o-ring along with the converter...

I trust your welder has done this type of repair before and knows the vagaries of the trans casting materials...they can be very included with impurities and contaminents which can make for a tough going with the TIG, even using helium...I generally use argon for this type of repair but that's because I generally weld thin sections and prefer the flow of argon, being heavier than air, vs. helium...

I use a diluted hydrochloric acid wash after surface oxide removal to de-oxydize the aluminum...very important with a casting...even then, I still get a skin occasionally...

Anyway, check the finished product on a surface plate or bolt it up to the block (after welding the inside) for flatness....you'd be amazed how heat moves things around...

Good luck...

Pat
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OK, I spoke with some of our welding engineers, and this is what they suggested.

---------------------------

Mark,
First things first: I worked for FMC/United Defense, not Lockheed. My family would disown me if I went to work for the Lazy L. Leddee worked for Caterpillar, not John Deere. (They have terrible bosses).

I would use GTAW which has the highest heat input of manual welding process. I would start with getting the aluminum dioxide from a commercial cleaning house. Cost: $35. Then grind a double vee for joint prep. to weld from both sides. Before you start to weld the second root pass, you need to grind out the crack completely into sound metal (into the first root pass). I would use 4043 filler because it has a little higher elongation the 5356. The bell housing is probably a 6000 series alloy. The bell housing that I welded up welded nicely. There are three rules to follow when welding aluminum.
1. Clean
2. Clean
3. Clean
Tom

[color:blue]
1967 Acapulco Blue coupe
302 4V, C4, 9" 3.25:1
Torq-Thrust "D" 225-60-14
1968 PDB, Corbeau
LeCarra, Alpine in-dash CD
http://www.geocities.com/mlnielsen_67/index.htm
WEBSITE UPDATED 2/28/01
</font color=blue>
 
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Discussion Starter #19
I printed this and I will take it to the welder tonight.
Thanks

Mike

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