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Discussion Starter #1
I have a '65 Fastback (V8, T5 w/hydraulic clutch) that still has 4 wheel drum brakes and a dual reservoir manual mc. I'd like to upgrade to disc brakes this winter. In the past I had a '65 coupe that had a SSBC 4-piston front disc setup that included a power MC. This brake system was okay, although I was surprised it didn't stop harder. I have done quite a few searches on here for feedback on Wilwood systems but have not seen a lot of discussion on the 6-piston 12.19" disc kit... I have 15" styled steel rims from Wheel Vintiques. Next weekend I plan to use the wheel clearance diagram to see if they will clear my rims. If they do not, then I would most likely go with the 11" or 11.3" 4-piston setup from Wilwood. Does anyone have experience with the 6-piston calipers with the 12.19" rotors? Manual or power mc? Hoping to see what people think of for the 6-piston calipers vs the 4-piston from Wilwood. Also would like to hear about what people think of manual mc vs power mc. Is it possible to have a pedal that doesn't require a linebacker to press it down with a manual mc and 4-wheel disc brakes? Do you need to change the pedal assembly if you stick with a manual mc?

Most likely I would upgrade the rear brakes to the 12.19" 4-piston brakes as well. My understanding is that this is an unnecessary upgrade for the rear brakes for street driving. Honestly I'm thinking about the rear brake upgrade more for cosmetic reasons.

I'm upgrading brakes on this car because I really would like modern braking performance. I had a '95 Mustang GT in the past and I loved how hard that car would stop when you really hopped on the brakes. I probably would only drive this car on the street

Thanks!
Rob
 

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No offense, but your driving a Vintage Mustang not a modern car of any brand. Install a standard Ford Kelsey-Hayes front disc system from chocostang or Opentracker with some Porterfield R4S pads and enjoy the beauty of your vintage Mustang.

Drive your vintage car for what it is.
 

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Hey Rob,

There is better stuff out there better than the Kelsy-Hayes stuff, but it comes at a price. Have you looked at Street or Track's front brake kit for 15" wheels? Link Here. Shaun's (Street or Track owner) kits are extremely well thought out and engineered and typically include every nut and bolt needed.

He also has a complete kit for front and rear disc: Link Here

FYI. I have 03 Cobra brakes front and rear (dual piston front, single in the back) and they've taken everything I've thrown at it. That being said, I don't track my car, just spirited driving.

Good luck,
-Shannon
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hey Rob,

There is better stuff out there better than the Kelsy-Hayes stuff, but it comes at a price. Have you looked at Street or Track's front brake kit for 15" wheels? Link Here. Shaun's (Street or Track owner) kits are extremely well thought out and engineered and typically include every nut and bolt needed.

He also has a complete kit for front and rear disc: Link Here

FYI. I have 03 Cobra brakes front and rear (dual piston front, single in the back) and they've taken everything I've thrown at it. That being said, I don't track my car, just spirited driving.

Good luck,
-Shannon
Thank you for the Street or track recommendation Shannon! I had not looked at their kits previously. Does anyone have an opinion on how the SoT 12”/4 piston front setup compares to the Wilwood 12.19”/4 piston setup? The wilwood Kit is quite a bit cheaper it seems... $1699 for the SoT vs $928 for the Wilwood. Is the SoT that much better?? You actually can buy the full front and rear Wilwood setup for nearly the cost of just the front SoT. I’m okay with paying more for the SoT setup if the extra cost is worth it. Any feedback?

I do prefer to get a kit that will offer better performance than the kelsey-hayes setup. I think i already has something near that level of performance in my previous SSBC Kit and would like something higher performance. I will keep this car until the day I stop being able to drive (50 years from now?) so I really want some braking technology that will begin to approach the braking abilities of modern cars.

Thanks!
Rob
 

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Its perfectly fine to say you want something better looking, bigger=blingier, go for it. :sleep:
If you think something 10-20% larger or 50% more pistons is going to stop you 30% shorter you will be disappointed. Stop it, you are deluding yourself. These cars are too light. The reason modern brakes are much bigger, not really proportionally bigger to the extra weight of a modern car, is because of that weight and width of the tires allows for added road friction.
 

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I have no experience with the components you are looking at. I do know my 69 stops much better since I swapped out the 2001 Cobra 13" power brakes, to 14.2" rotors with 2014 Mustang GT 4 piston Brembo manual brakes.

6 pistons with their larger pads will give you more clamping force than the 4 piston calipers. I'm not an engineer, but you might want to check to see if the 6 piston caliper uses more brake fluid, resulting in longer pedal travel.

With the Wilwood diagram it seems like you could cut out a cardboard template to see if it fits the wheel.

Its perfectly fine to say you want something better looking, bigger=blingier, go for it. :sleep:
If you think something 10-20% larger or 50% more pistons is going to stop you 30% shorter you will be disappointed. Stop it, you are deluding yourself. These cars are too light. .
That's not what this comparison on Street or Track's Brakes found.
 

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New and freshly bedded pads/rotors and fresh Comp-2 rubber with prol 200tw or less vs TA's and X pads/rotors. Ya, that's a fair comparison. The fade test will translate some but the rest is fodder.

The point is the clamping power needed to overcome friction with the road is not all that great in a light car with average tires. Drum brakes can do it once or twice in a row. GoogleFu will show that your intuitions about pad size and pistons are not what you think either.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
New and freshly bedded pads/rotors and fresh Comp-2 rubber with prol 200tw or less vs TA's and X pads/rotors. Ya, that's a fair comparison. The fade test will translate some but the rest is fodder.

The point is the clamping power needed to overcome friction with the road is not all that great in a light car with average tires. Drum brakes can do it once or twice in a row. GoogleFu will show that your intuitions about pad size and pistons are not what you think either.
From the article: "We did the before and after tests using the same wheel and tire combination."
Seems like it's a fair comparison between two brakes with the end result being that the Street or Track brakes resulted in a large improvement in braking performance. Thanks for sharing this!
 

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First, I'd call S&T and ask questions. When I did re: Bilsteins, Shaun was very helpful.
Second, bigger is better for fade. But for street driving good disc brakes don't need to be huge. Remember also to consider the availability of parts in the future if you get some unusual setup.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hey Shannon,

I was researching mustang Steve power brakes tonight and found an older post from you that mentioned you had to convert from mustang Steve power brakes/pedal back to a manual setup due to interference with your modern driveline clutch setup. Are you still running manual discs or were you able to find a power solution that works? I have the MD hydraulic clutch in my 65.

Thanks!
Rob
 

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Hey Shannon,

I was researching mustang Steve power brakes tonight and found an older post from you that mentioned you had to convert from mustang Steve power brakes/pedal back to a manual setup due to interference with your modern driveline clutch setup. Are you still running manual discs or were you able to find a power solution that works? I have the MD hydraulic clutch in my 65.

Thanks!
Rob
Hey Rob,

Yeah, I did have his setup.. very nice kit. However, at the time the hydraulic clutch was more important to me so I sold the power brake kit. I still have manual brakes and at this point, I'm used to them, so it's not an issue. With the Cobra brakes front/rear and the Dunlops, my Mustang stops better than it has a legal right to... you just have to press the pedal harder.

Besides with the engine I have now, I'm not sure power brakes would be an option (low vacuum) and since I don't have hydraulic power steering, Hydro-boost is out. Only option left is electric assist and that just seems to be a big PITA.

Take care,
-Shannon
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hey Rob,

Yeah, I did have his setup.. very nice kit. However, at the time the hydraulic clutch was more important to me so I sold the power brake kit. I still have manual brakes and at this point, I'm used to them, so it's not an issue. With the Cobra brakes front/rear and the Dunlops, my Mustang stops better than it has a legal right to... you just have to press the pedal harder.

Besides with the engine I have now, I'm not sure power brakes would be an option (low vacuum) and since I don't have hydraulic power steering, Hydro-boost is out. Only option left is electric assist and that just seems to be a big PITA.

Take care,
-Shannon
Yeah, that makes sense. Which manual master cylinder did you go with?
I like the idea of using brakes from a late model mustang like you, but I can’t clear them since I only have 15” wheels:-/

Rob
 

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I've had a couple. Right now I'm running a 1" Willwood MC, but I've also used an OEM 1" Ford unit. I'm also running an SSBC proportioning valve.

-Shannon
 

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OK, i missed that written but slso from the article: "We did the before and after tests using the same wheel and tire combination."
Seems like it's a fair comparison between two brakes with the end result being that the Street or Track brakes resulted in a large improvement in braking performance. Thanks for sharing this!
Also from that article. " Note also that tires play a pretty big role in stopping ability and no doubt contributed to the improvement in braking...." Soooo WTF? They also mention the pad length as an advantage...delusional or ignorant? Well they didn't say the length increased friction so they didn't lie.
They also mention physics once which makes one think of truths and laws. So if, no, scratch that and say since, since it can be demonstrated. Since the K/H or other brakes can bring a car to the brink of and beyond overcoming friction with the road, that is threshold braking, The article even says they do this So SINCE they can THEN the distances will be equal if the other variable are equal, ie. friction material and tires(period) Will the bigger rotors be better? Well, they will be easier to get to threshold and beyond to lock-up and uncontrollable, so take your better where you can get it.
They aren't bad, just realize what they are selling.
 

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I would look for documentation and tests for any kits you buy actually stopping the car better. As an example... SoT's kit ended up in a mustang magazine article not long ago and the 60-0 stopping as tested showed dramatic improvement over stock. That's the type of actual proof you are looking for, as such, SoT's kit is now on the top of my list.
 

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I have the SoT 13” brakes. I love them. Better feel in comparison to the K/H. If you’re gonna be aggressive with braking, and I mean AGGRESSIVE with braking, get the bigger brakes. Otherwise a K/H set up is sufficient.


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