Vintage Mustang Forums banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have a 1967 convertible with (as far as I can tell) the original 289/C4 combo. The paint is not correct to the vin and I have already upgraded to a 4bbl intake/carb, front coilovers and wilwood disc brakes. I am tossing around the Idea of a 351W/T5 swap. At this point, does it matter that I am possibly pulling the original engine/tranny. There were literally tens of thousands these C code 289/c4 combos produced. I feel guilty about breaking up an original engine/tranny combo, but dont know if that is well grounded. I grew up around cars shows and "numbers matching" was always a buzz word. At this point I am certainly not winning any classic restoration shows, but also not able to have any fun burning rubber as I drag race minivans to church on Sunday mornings.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
1968 coupe, 1968 vert, 1966 coupe
Joined
·
711 Posts
If you wanna swap, swap just save the original stuff if you have the space because when you sell the car that might matter to whoever’s buying it... I am a fan of original but whatever does it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,901 Posts
That's almost a complete bolt on conversion. I think the only change to the car would be punching out the clutch level hole in the firewall (if you use a zbar setup) or the holes you'd drill if you do a hydraulic clutch. You might have to trim the floor for the t5 shifter too (but that's not a visible change).

Everything can be saved to go with the car if you sell it later on.

Personally, I think the market would be stronger for a car with more power and a 5 speed compared to the original setup...but for purists out there, you're giving them the option to convert back to stock if they want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
So it sounds like this would only matter IF I ever sell it AND IF that potential buyer cares. But it isnt a K code 289 hipo or 390, so does it really matter?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,717 Posts
Only on rare, and valuable cars that actually Have verifiable matching numbers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Sounds like I should do some more research on the specifics of a 351W/T5 or 302/T5 swap then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
824 Posts
It may not make a difference in value, but for some people it makes the car more interesting. I'm sure you can also find cars that once was hot rodded, later being returned back to stock. Sometimes even by the same owner. As long as the stock parts are saved, it's alway possible to change mind later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
I believe most anyone looking to buy a "numbers matching" stang would be scared off by the coilovers and other mods anyways, go for most fun!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,025 Posts
Do whatever makes the car more enjoyable for you. Switching out the engine especially to a combo that wasn't produced will negatively impact the value. People like to see original even if they aren't experts... it makes them feel more comfortable that they are buying something unmolested. That said, I always modify my cars to suite me... I enjoy the hobby and I want to enjoy my cars. I could care less how they were produced.

david
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,054 Posts
The "Numbers Matching" thing doesn't really apply to early Mustangs because there are no numbers on the engine or transmission. My 1970 Mach 1 has the VIN stamped on the original Cleveland block. This was one of the first examples of Ford stamping the blocks on all cars. And I get the impression it was very hit or miss in 1970.

The Numbers Matching thing is a big deal with Corvettes. Those engines and transmissions did get a VIN. And it was very commone for people to blow up the original engine or simply swap it out when it was worn out. So, a numbers matching Corvette is somewhat rare and very desirable which really bumps up the value. With other GM cars, it matters somewhat, but not as much as with a Corvette. I think it's the same with Mopars, but I'm not certain.

Many people therefore assume the Numbers Matching thing applies to early Mustangs, but with the exception of a Shelby or a Boss, it doesn't apply.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
All really good feedback, thank you. Now I will just need to decide if I want to swap to a 351, a 302, or try an upgrade the 289 with cam, lifters, aluminum heads, etc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,287 Posts
Numbers matching does apply to Mustangs.

Many early K codes had the VIN stamped into the block.

Starting January 1, 1968 all engines and transmissions had to have a partial VIN stamped.

For the better quality cars having the original engine and transmission adds value.

There is a sliding curve to this though. A matching numbers T code would not add the same value as a matching numbers 428 CobraJet. Part of that equation is also the type of car. For a fastback there is more value added than for a coupe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
410 Posts
On my 67 GT 390 with competition handing package, the VIN number is stamped both in the block and the trans. My car was so deteriorated with rust, I'm making it a restomod in many ways but I'm keeping the outward appearance mostly stock with exception of stance and wheels/tires. I'm even installing EFI and stroking the 390 but I'm keeping the block and trans because of the rarity. Everything else I'm doing for myself. It's my car and I can be selfish

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
922 Posts
Number matching is mostly an ego/bragging rights thing. Unless, of course, your car is a rare model, complete factory-correct concourse restoration or an all original as-is garage queen. And, again, only if you're planning on selling it to a collector. Just my thoughts on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,963 Posts
I saw a magazine article about a typical with decent options 6 cylinder coupe that the owners were keeping completely original. There was only 1 special thing about it. The actual mileage on the car was less than the first oil change. I forget how many miles are on it but it is amazing to see any original car with that few miles on it. I actually don't think keeping it original would make it sell for more money though.

It might be worth asking the Mustang club of America but you have already made the car not original so I don't think keeping the original engine is worth much unless it is an all original A code or K code for 65/66. Other codes for other years would be a consideration for keeping those original engines.

Selling it later, it would likely get more money with an overdrive conversion, stroker motor, front disc brakes and whatever else you decide to do.
 

·
Registered
1965 Ford Mustang fastback T5 Ncas 9in Locker
Joined
·
581 Posts
"Numbers matching" is a Chevy (corvette) thing, in Ford ( mustang/ shelby) it is "date code correct", if Im not mistaken.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
535 Posts
I will offer the counterpoint opinion and say that it does matter to me. I instantly look past any car that does not have the original (or correct anyway) drivetrain as a buyer. Having said that, I have modded a car that I owned since I was a kid, because it needed everything and wasn't really unmolested to begin with. I like knowing that the car has all the items it was engineered for, and it's harder to maintain a car in that condition than it is to swap for more modern stuff. To me, that makes those cars more special and more historically appealing. I don't begrudge anyone for doing what they want with their own car, but some cars are much better candidates for component swapping than others. It bugs me when a perfectly good and correct car is robbed of all the right stuff just to put on stuff that's shinier or "faster" or louder. I think too much emphasis is placed on the perception of speed. To each his own.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,901 Posts
You could take your 289 and get a 331 or 347 stroker kit for it. Then it looks stock and has the 'as born block' but a lot more power. I have a 347 in my Cobra replica with a bone stock t5 (never rebuilt) behind it. Just don't put sticky tires and drop the clutch and it will last.

Or go big and find that 351w and stroke it to 408 or 427. But then you're spending extra money to beef up the stock t5 transmission. It's just money and you can always grow more on the money tree in your backyard.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top