[W427]

I have used every kind and type of induction out there, applying advanced tuning techniques, so keep in-mind that's where I'm coming-from. My first comment is that they all work, and can all work very well. Like anything (cams, heads, gears, etc), each has certain pros and cons. After decades of carbs of every description, to mechanical FI, EFI and so on, all of them require very good knowledge and tuning to get very good results — not just run OK.

With that in-mind, I build my own systems from scratch to use the right components for the right reasons. I build my own custom carb-replacement EFI for under $500 and up (for me), including WBO2, ignition and fuel system, plus my time. Less for existing EFI. Yes, I am at that end of the scale. So, I'm happy to pass-along info and perspective on stuff, but it's up to you to choose your level of engagement. What level you choose will dictate what will fit "you" best.

Highly capable but not default automated is my thing, so I can squeeze everything out of them in the way that meets goals. Megasquirt, Speeduino and others have entry-level to pro options to get started there. If you know tuning and carbs, they are an easy transition. Carbs are fun, complicated and challenging to tune well, and becoming an oddity, but I'm mostly past the "sweat over the engine for 20 minutes, and do it again 37 times" stage. EFI is much more consistent and reliable, and as every function is separate instead of blended, is sooo much simpler to tune, troubleshoot and diagnose (which is what all tuning is) — if you are willing to learn. What will you learn about any of the choices?

You can choose to learn nothing, and that means paying someone else for their skills or engineered kit, and finding that someone to tune anything you like. Nothing wrong with that. You can learn a little, and use a basic carb or full EFI kit ($) so you don't have to do much to make it work "OK" to pretty good. Or you can commit to any level, learning all about tuning (which applies to all of them and simply applied differently), to get some amazing results. There are no bad choices, just best ones that fit you. I hope that helps. Do your thing!

 

[W427]

@1970rusty - I don't know you, your project goals or anything, but I did spot something you said. Without anything else to go on, I am initially agreeing with your machinist, that you should stick with a carb. The reason is that you are paying someone to assemble that engine for you, rather than take a challenge to learn how to do it yourself. That's fine, but is the only indicator to me that you may not be the type to invest in learning more or developing skills in order to install and tune your own stuff.

That's fine, but tells me you could use a basic carb or expensive self-do-everything EFI and give it a shot, but you will possibly just ask someone else to do it for you. At that point, and depending on your project goals, that would likely be a carb and your machinist's recommendation for tuning. I don't mean to sound presumptive, but it's one way I look for clues for a good fit, and only one clue. Just my 2-cents not knowing anything else about you. 🤷‍♂️

The same goes for others too comfortable with what they know or have. That's fine, but there is little motivation to explore stuff or methods that may be better, quicker, cheaper or whatever. Those are often the personality type to cuss at what they don't know or diss other options rather than motivate themselves to learn new ways they might solve whatever issue is in-front of them quickly. For them, anything outside their comfort zone is a poor fit. Lots of personalities lead to lots of options—and opinions about them.

 

[W427]

LOL, now that was some insight! Although most are unaware, our personality traits are certainly a strong factor in choice of induction system, and leads to more or less satisfaction. You don't have any disorder I mentioned, unless you're divulging more than we need to know. But this approach has gained a lot more satisfied users when matching wants, needs and personalities. I meant no disrespect and only helpful perspective, though your personality may not handle that well. Do your thing!

 

[W427]

If the question is EFI vs carb, that's fine in that context. A separate question is old horror stories about specific brand quality issues with carbs or EFI, and has little bearing on the first question. I have to say I spend far more time troubleshooting on classic carbs than EFI these days, as both are shrouded in mystery to most owners.

Sure, you can turn a screw to set idle, or click to do it in EFI, but for most it ends there. If your favorite technician knows carbs, get their recommended carb. If they know EFI, get their recommended EFI. They are the ones helping if you run out of answers, so get what they know. Or, commit to learning to do it yourself, but we wouldn't be here asking questions if we already knew everything we needed.

If you know enough to scramble eggs, that's fine. But, you'll only ever have scrambled eggs on the menu. Learn enough to pick your Pros and consider your Cons, make your choices and drive happy.

 

[W427]

Personally I'll never go EFI again. … Instantly had issues and ...insisted I send it back. … Over a month later I get it back. New issues. Again, send it back.… Over a month later I get it back again.

This is a sad but good example of quality control, not pros and cons of carbs vs EFI. The lesson is about the brand, not the system.

I think the TBI kits don’t really make much sense in terms of going to EFI. It’s just an electronically controlled carburetor.

Far from it and a misconception of the systems and their ability to control and self-correct with data. Roughly 80 to 90% of the benefits surrounding EFI can be had in TBI (depending on purpose and goals for the project), with certain goals met better by port injection, although many of those are never used by owners, so TBI is popular in "bang for the buck" and simplifying of installation.

If carbs are what you know, then you can get what you need from them for many project goals. They can work surprisingly well, but simply take more skill and work to get most of the way there, but simply can't do everything EFI is capable-of, or as well, with the many ways it can be manipulated. An example is @maxoverclock 's tables, which are basic, easy and running well, and now ready to begin advanced tuning to improve power everywhere you want it, and economy where you don't need max power. Efficiency everywhere, so it's powerful and responsive or squeaking fuel, one or the other or both, all the time under all conditions, seasonal fuel changes, weather, etc.

There are many factors at-play, but TBI can have an edge in power potential over MPFI, which has advantage in other areas, likewise for carbs. Here is an F1 racing engine, where they had the resources to do fueling any way they liked, but went with this TBI/ITB setup:

 

[W427]

TBI is such ancient format.

LOL… so instead of 1980s+ TBI tech, you went with 1880s+ carburetor tech, and called TBI ancient.

 

[W427]

I think @Huskinhano's point was if you're going to go EFI, don't hassle with old tech like TBI and just do it right …

I got that, but then jumping to MPFI ignores options that may fit a specific project better. That's part of the point, that "doing it right" does not mean only one way or method for anything or everything. It's not a "hassle" (and is typically easier) if it serves the purposes and goals best. And of course, I couldn't pass-up the irrelevant "ancient" comment.

The EEC-V from the Explorer is a great idea! If you're trying to save money, I think it would be the cheapest route, …

With aftermarket fully-configurable and tunable ECMs under $200, EEC plus the box and software is "cheap" but not cheapest (if that's one of the project goals); nor can EEC do things aftermarket can, if those are again on your goals list. Different pros and cons to judge. This always circles-around to project goals, examining options and avoiding assumptions that can limit project success. You can never win an argument that something is always best (how this thread started), but you can use what checks the most goals boxes for the win. ☑

Thank you for sharing so much of your knowledge, experience, and wisdom. I learn something new every time you post 😎

Thanks for that, and I hope it's useful. I have always felt that you don't have to learn everything for yourself, and the sharing of info is one way to avoid making the same mistakes others have. Please, learn from my mistakes, as I paid a lot for them. 🤬 VMF has a tone of doing this for each other. Having learned so much from others was invaluable for me, and I can't botch my karma by holding it back from others along the way. That's my thing.

 

[W427]

So anything I build at this point gets EFI, specifically port injection and MAF.

And we have circled back to what you are comfortable with. I wouldn't suggest limiting one's self to port and MAF, but on the other hand, if that's your comfort zone you'll likely do a better job with it. I like a full smorgasbord of options, and if the best-fit system for the project goals isn't my thing, I'll consider jumping in to expand my horizons. That's not for everyone, and not even me sometimes. Do your thing!