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EFI or Carb - Why did you choose it?

10K views 89 replies 43 participants last post by  Westmus 
#1 ·
I’m looking to get a 96-01 Explorer 302 for my 67 FB build because it’s the cheapest path to build an engine up to 280-300 hp.

I’ve been putting off getting an engine because I can’t decide on whether to make EFI work or just switch to a carb. I’m familiar with a carb, and that hp range will be streetable and easy. The EFI route seems a bit daunting, what with all the wiring and such.

I’m just curious to get some opinions on why you did what you did if it was a reason other than originality.
 
#30 ·
I'm old enough to know my way around a Holley carburetor but didn't like the constant fiddling so I was an early adopter of the FiTech TBI. I went through 3 TBI units and 2 wiring harnesses under warranty before I sold it to a forum member for $100. FiTech is still in business so I would have to assume improvements have been made. I currently run the Pro-Flo 4 that was flawless for two years until it wasn't. This summer the Edelbrock return rail mounted fuel pressure regulator failed and a direct replacement being backordered indefinitely I had to convert over to a external firewall mounted unit. In that process I must have moved the PF4 distributor extension harness connector onto the top of the fuel pressure sender unit. The end result was me bringing the trailer to the car after it stopped running at 2 autocross events. The car ran perfect until it got heat build up and then wouldn't run until it had cooled for hours. After a lot of cursing and hair pulling moving the distributor extension harness connector an inch off of the top of the fuel pressure sending unit made the car 100% awesome again! Multi port fuel injection is the best thing on earth when it works, and a head scratcher hair puller when it doesn't. Given the G forces of autocross I'm going continue on with multi port EFI for now.
 
#31 ·
My car came with the Pro Flo 1, and it was ok, but I want to run a supercharger and it just wasn’t compatible. I upgraded to the 4, and mine didn’t come with a regulator, so from the swap I’ve had a hefty Aeromotive regulator (in anticipation of having to run another fuel pump, bigger lines, and way bigger injectors for the supercharger). I also run a fuel pulse dampener to avoid any resonance in the lines. I haven’t had any issues whatsoever but I’m always on the lookout for anyone else’s experiences with the same setup. I can’t wait to run boost!
 
#32 ·
We have more clients going back to carb from the throttle body EFI systems(fast,atomic,etc). 4 out of the last 10 installs had to come back for new throttle bodies or ecu mods. The quality of these kits are awful and after you wait on hold for an hour to talk to tech you still get no where. If you get an EFI buy two for spare parts, no auto parts stores while on a trip will have a replacement if you break down. I would buy a nice carb, have it tuned and never look back.
 
#33 ·
Carb setups have "personality". Each has it's own preferred starting procedure. Pump the gas. Once, twice. No throttle, hold the throttle a little, or halfway. Etc. EFI is touch nothing except the key. Light flipping on a light switch. That is nice enough in its place (wife's car, daily driver. work truck, etc) but I like that my antique hobby vehicles require some actual human interaction for proper operation and continued optimal performance. Modern cars are "hands off", old ones are "hands on". Not carved in stone, just how I like it.
 
#34 ·
I ran carb forever because I enjoy tinkering and tuning. I'm at the point where I have limited time to spend on the car so I went EFI to be able to spend my time on other things with the vehicle-mine is a work in process going on 4 years now. It is nice not having to tune for the seasons anymore and I like the wider mid-rpm performance. I do miss the sound and feel of the secondaries kicking in though. I'm sure fuel mileage has improved but I never checked.
 
#35 ·
IMHO, unless it is multi-port EFI and can regulate ignition timing, there is not much performance difference between the two. IIRC there is an Engine Masters episode where this was shown on the dyno. EFI of any type can do away with vapor lock hot start issues, but so can a phenolic spacer and/or electric fuel pump. I have had very good luck with the Summit branded 600cfm vac sencondary carbs and they are economical financially speaking. I have also considered replacing the carb with TBI EFI, but to me it is like rear disc brakes. The cost vs benefit is not there. Ultimately it is your car, your money, your decision. Either way drive and enjoy it.
 
#36 ·
If the question is EFI vs carb, that's fine in that context. A separate question is old horror stories about specific brand quality issues with carbs or EFI, and has little bearing on the first question. I have to say I spend far more time troubleshooting on classic carbs than EFI these days, as both are shrouded in mystery to most owners.

Sure, you can turn a screw to set idle, or click to do it in EFI, but for most it ends there. If your favorite technician knows carbs, get their recommended carb. If they know EFI, get their recommended EFI. They are the ones helping if you run out of answers, so get what they know. Or, commit to learning to do it yourself, but we wouldn't be here asking questions if we already knew everything we needed.

If you know enough to scramble eggs, that's fine. But, you'll only ever have scrambled eggs on the menu. ;) Learn enough to pick your Pros and consider your Cons, make your choices and drive happy.
 
#37 ·
Another EFI guy here. Carburetor tuning is an art; one that I did not care to learn. I was rebuilding my motor, and my wiring under the hood and under the dash was a mess, so when I redid the motor and wiring, I took that opportunity to add the Pro Flo 4. So far, I have no regrets.
 
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#38 · (Edited)
My old Race Demon 750 is too small for my new engine combo, when the X-Flow Sniper came out it seemed perfect fit for me (bigger t-body is able to support H.P. needs) and being it did not cost drasticly more than a 950-100cfm race carburetor and i already needed to upgrade the entire fuel system as old stuff wasnt enough for new motor, it was the logical choice ! Plus tuning a carb to drive comfortably on the street with 260@.050 degrees of camshaft duration can be finicky, efi does it better lol

Ive gotten a 750 double pumper to run decent on the street with 248@.050 duration w/ lots of overlap, but it had slight part throttle stumble that i couldnt work out, it was irritating.
 
#39 ·
As far as the expense of good EFI setups, watch FakeBook Marketplace. I've seen several complete kits posted up for reasonable prices. I went the semi-factory route because it works and is straightforward to tune (albeit with some added hardware) and it's simple to find parts for. I picked up half the parts super cheap (Foxbody guys looking to upgrade to the next level) and / or at the local pull-your-part (Foxbody accessory drive setup).
 
#40 ·
I’m looking to get a 96-01 Explorer 302 for my 67 FB build because it’s the cheapest path to build an engine up to 280-300 hp.

I’ve been putting off getting an engine because I can’t decide on whether to make EFI work or just switch to a carb. I’m familiar with a carb, and that hp range will be streetable and easy. The EFI route seems a bit daunting, what with all the wiring and such.

I’m just curious to get some opinions on why you did what you did if it was a reason other than originality.
Personally I'll never go EFI again. I bought the 400hp street version from FiTech. Instantly had issues and they refused to send me a new unit...insisted I send it back. Was told it was a software issue. Over a month later I get it back. New issues. Again, send it back. This time told it was a bad ECU. Over a month later I get it back again. By now I'm pissed and rather than install/uninstall/install again I went back to my trusty Holley Avenger.
 
#44 ·
Personally I'll never go EFI again. … Instantly had issues and ...insisted I send it back. … Over a month later I get it back. New issues. Again, send it back.… Over a month later I get it back again.
This is a sad but good example of quality control, not pros and cons of carbs vs EFI. The lesson is about the brand, not the system.
I think the TBI kits don’t really make much sense in terms of going to EFI. It’s just an electronically controlled carburetor.
Far from it and a misconception of the systems and their ability to control and self-correct with data. Roughly 80 to 90% of the benefits surrounding EFI can be had in TBI (depending on purpose and goals for the project), with certain goals met better by port injection, although many of those are never used by owners, so TBI is popular in "bang for the buck" and simplifying of installation.

If carbs are what you know, then you can get what you need from them for many project goals. They can work surprisingly well, but simply take more skill and work to get most of the way there, but simply can't do everything EFI is capable-of, or as well, with the many ways it can be manipulated. An example is @maxoverclock 's tables, which are basic, easy and running well, and now ready to begin advanced tuning to improve power everywhere you want it, and economy where you don't need max power. Efficiency everywhere, so it's powerful and responsive or squeaking fuel, one or the other or both, all the time under all conditions, seasonal fuel changes, weather, etc.

There are many factors at-play, but TBI can have an edge in power potential over MPFI, which has advantage in other areas, likewise for carbs. Here is an F1 racing engine, where they had the resources to do fueling any way they liked, but went with this TBI/ITB setup:
 
#45 ·
I originally purchased my Holley 650 double pumper about 15 years ago when the price difference from EFI and carb was greater. That being said the carb has been pretty flawless save from one vapor lock event in 15 years. I thought about “upgrading” to efi but I had read enough stories about people having a bad ecu and replacements being back ordered that I decided to keep what I have but improve it. So I’ve installed an AFR gauge to help with tuning and I bought a bypass regulator etc to make a return fuel system to help ease my mind of vapor lock on those 90+ degree days.

For me it was a decision based on what I can troubleshoot and repair on the side of the road along with not wanting to lose the nostalgia of having to deal with a carbs personality. The day my 10 year old was helping me tune the carb this past summer I knew I had made the right choice. He’ll be one of a few his generation who have even touched one probably!
 
#57 ·
I originally purchased my Holley 650 double pumper about 15 years ago when the price difference from EFI and carb was greater. That being said the carb has been pretty flawless save from one vapor lock event in 15 years. I thought about “upgrading” to efi but I had read enough stories about people having a bad ecu and replacements being back ordered that I decided to keep what I have but improve it. So I’ve installed an AFR gauge to help with tuning and I bought a bypass regulator etc to make a return fuel system to help ease my mind of vapor lock on those 90+ degree days.

For me it was a decision based on what I can troubleshoot and repair on the side of the road along with not wanting to lose the nostalgia of having to deal with a carbs personality. The day my 10 year old was helping me tune the carb this past summer I knew I had made the right choice. He’ll be one of a few his generation who have even touched one probably!
I'm all in on Multi port EFI but think those not pulling G's could do well with a carb and a return style fuel system in eliminating the vapor lock that happens with ethanol blended "street" gas. I'm a big fan of in tank fuel pumps as well. I wish I had done a little more tinkering with an old 650 DP I had from back in the day before I sold it to a forum member just to see what was possible.

EFI when it works is awesome though!
 
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#49 ·
I chose EFI and AOD as I planned for my Mustang to be my regular Daily Driver and use it for commuting. I have no regrets on going with the stock Ford EEC-IV EFI system.


Reading about so many problems others have experienced with aftermarket systems I would be hesitant to go that route. If not an OEM conversion, I’d probably just run a carburetor any future classics.
 
#50 ·
The EEC-V from the Explorer is a great idea! If you're trying to save money, I think it would be the cheapest route, without a doubt and offers all the tuning capability you need if you obtain a TwEECer RT device. Mike Glover has developed software called CalEdit (which in its early days was sorely lacking in capability) which in its current state supports strategies employed by almost all late model EEC-V computers.

The advantage to the last edition of the EEC-V software used to run the 5.0L engines (probably the REAC4 strategy, EQE3 catch code or similar) is that it benefits from decades of refinement. It just works - the engine starts up authoritatively, warms up smoothly and can be driven without issue even when cold, does not rely on a barometric sensor of any kind like the older EEC-IV computers did and even qualifies the vehicles they were installed in for LEV (low emission vehicle) status.

With TwEECer installed you can alter spark tables, fuel maps, MAF sensor transfer functions, ECT sensor transfer functions, injector data and even enable dual independent fan control for your e-fans. I'm using said computer for my '66 GT restomod although my engine is the original 289 significantly hopped up beyond stock.
 
#55 ·
Not debating the awesomeness of EFI (been playing with Harley's for years!) but the simplicity of a carb, especially my preferred "manual choke" models, is hard to beat. That being said, a few years ago, I swapped out an Edelbrock 1405 with an AVS2 1915 and all I can say is WOW! The improved down-leg boosters are almost EFI smooth in the transition points.

Seriously, after adjusting idle screw (due to VooDoo 268 FT cam in my 347ci build) I've done nothing from out-of-the-box settings, its been great, and improved my MPG as well. Still using a "vintage" Edelbrock F4B (cobra clone) intake feeding 351W heads with 195/160 SS valves. Its a very "torquey" motor spinning a Speedway Motor 9" 3.25 helical gear drive through Tremec 3550 5spd.

 
#56 ·
It's undebatable that unless you get one of those Accufab carb spacer styled throttle bodies, you'll be drastically altering the appearance of the engine with your EFI setup. For some, this is an issue because some folks are definitely into the carb'd look... I totally understand that. From that perspective, many of the carb replacement TBI units do work fairly well. If you're going for max effort and optimization for the engine, then the MPFI is the next step - nobody has developed a head with direct injection retrofit yet that I'm aware (that would bring things right up to the latest tech!).

I have a friend with an early Bronco that opted to go with what I think is a Mass-Flo EFI setup which places the MAF inside the throttle body bore of the carb'd intake. It conceals the MAF very effectively, but we've had some issues tuning around it. Regardless, it produces around 650 hp and runs well enough, so I'd say if that system is still available, you'd be able to run MPFI and retain the "carb'd" appearance as well.

In the end, it's your choice whether you enjoy spilling fuel all over your hands while removing fuel bowls from carbs and altering jets. That stuff is all adjusted using the keyboard with EFI, but for some the computer software can be a challenge in itself too... I definitely appreciate the frustration that surrounds that.
 
#58 ·
I started with carbs in my classics, learning as I went. Then I started playing with EFI when I was in college, learning enough that for most of my working life I've been an engine calibrator for one of the OEMs. (I started with an EEC-Tuner, got one of the first batch of twEECers, and now also have a QuarterHorse, along with chips for when I'm done playing. I've been around it long enough that I was involved in cracking some of the EECs.)

So anything I build at this point gets EFI, specifically port injection and MAF.
 
#60 ·
So anything I build at this point gets EFI, specifically port injection and MAF.
And we have circled back to what you are comfortable with. I wouldn't suggest limiting one's self to port and MAF, but on the other hand, if that's your comfort zone you'll likely do a better job with it. :cool: I like a full smorgasbord of options, and if the best-fit system for the project goals isn't my thing, I'll consider jumping in to expand my horizons. That's not for everyone, and not even me sometimes. Do your thing!
 
#63 ·
I chose, and will continue to choose, a carburetor. I own a vintage Mustang to drive a vintage Mustang, not a late model Mustang.

A brief observation..... I'd like to see ANY of today's comparable vehicles with a 3.00:1 final drive ratio in top gear, manage to get the same fuel mileage on a trip that I do with my Mustang. If I limit myself to 70 mph and tread lightly on the skinny pedal I can squeak 20 mpg on the highway.
 
#65 ·
I chose, and will continue to choose, a carburetor. I own a vintage Mustang to drive a vintage Mustang, not a late model Mustang.
As much as it pains me to side with Bart, this is exactly where I’m at. It’s why I backed off EFI for a carb. It’s why I backed off a T-5 for a Toploader. It’s why I’ll use stock-ish suspension versus coilovers or 3-links. Nothing against any of this or those who choose this path, but I want the vintage feel, bugaboos and all.
 
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