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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I going to take look at a 408 351w stroker, To drop into my 69 Mach 1. I have a couple of questions.

The engine is setup for EFI should I consider keeping it EFI? What would be involved to swap a existing 351w carbed setup over to a EFI and how would you run the TV cable on AOD

If I plan to convert it to a Carb setup do I just need a new timing cover, a mechanical fuel pump, eccentric?

The engine has a super victor EFI intake port matched to the AFR 205 heads, can you reuse the lower EFI intake with a CARB and put bungs where the injectors were?
 

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Is it a ford efi?

How much hp is it?

What are the cam specs, it might not like a tight lobe center like 110 or less if you use the ford computer.
You can not use the efi bottom for a carb.

If you go carb you might look at an eddy air gap or a vic jr depending on where you want your power to be.
.
 

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The engine has a super victor EFI intake port matched to the AFR 205 heads, can you reuse the lower EFI intake with a CARB and put bungs where the injectors were?
I don't see why not...it uses the Holley-pattern square flange. Note that it doesn't have any vacuum provisions, IIRC, so you'd have to use a carburetor spacer for PCV and possibly machine a runner for an accessory tap.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Is it a ford efi?

How much hp is it?

What are the cam specs, it might not like a tight lobe center like 110 or less if you use the ford computer.
You can not use the efi bottom for a carb.

If you go carb you might look at an eddy air gap or a vic jr depending on where you want your power to be.
.
Engine made 410RWHP on a mustang dyno, so it's 500hp+ as it sits. Here is what I know, the guy is selling it cause he wants to build a big HP low CR turbo engine.

408w roller cam
DSS Series 20 Performance Block
Forged Crank and Pistons
Pistons are 31cc dished
All HD rod bolts , etc
35-776-8 Comp Cam
AFR 205 Heads- 58 cc cambers
10.5:1 compression
Roller rockers/lifters
Super Victor EFI intake
Intake is ported to match heads
Upper portion of intake is also ported.
 

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Engine made 410RWHP on a mustang dyno, so it's 500hp+ as it sits. Here is what I know, the guy is selling it cause he wants to build a big HP low CR turbo engine.

408w roller cam
DSS Series 20 Performance Block
Forged Crank and Pistons
Pistons are 31cc dished
All HD rod bolts , etc
35-776-8 Comp Cam
AFR 205 Heads- 58 cc cambers
10.5:1 compression
Roller rockers/lifters
Super Victor EFI intake
Intake is ported to match heads
Upper portion of intake is also ported.
Just be aware that motor is going to be a turd down low and if you're running an automatic you'll need a converter with a 3500+ rpm stall.
 

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lol, alrighty then. I know pretty much what you got. That’s a pretty wicked cam that will have a fairly nasty idle, and as was mentioned, it won't have much power until it gets going a bit.

If it were me, I would sell the efi set up on ebay.

if you want to get max hp and top end out of it, i would buy an eddy vic jr and get it matched to the heads. otherwise an eddy rpm or similar.

If you want a carb with a choke, maybe buy the one below and buy their high flow ford kick down throttle rod for around $28.00.

830 cfm, mechanical secondary, high flow body, down leg boosters, removable air jets.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/qft-ss-830/overview/


Buy titanium valve spring retainers for the intake only. They will be around $15.00 each. Manleys are good but any are fine. This will get you a few more rpm.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/valve-spring-retainers/retainer-material/titanium/valve-spring-quantity/dual/quantity/sold-individually?N=4294918024+4294918416+4294918020+4294951810&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&tw=valve spring retainers&sw=Valve Spring Retainers


Remove one spring and have a machine shop test it to see what it is. It is common for springs to be a little lite and if they are you can gain more rpm with stiffer ones or you might even be able to simply add a shim under then to get enough pressure if they are a bit low. all these things can be done with the heads on the block.

Autolite AR3924 spark plugs.

Maybe an MSD 6 box and epoxy coil.

It will need 1 7/8” headers that are at least as big as the port on the head.

its going to need at least 3.73 gears no matter what trans you have.
.
 

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i forgot . . you also need to run a particular type of metal distributor gear with that or it will kill the gears . . i just use composite gears becausee they are compatible with everything. .
 

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...also check the rocker stud diameter . . if they are only 7/16 i would buy rocker studs . . if your push rods are small diameter i would get the p/n off them and seee if they are .080 wall and if tehy are not i would get other ones . . make sure it does not have chinese lifters . . find out exactly what lifters are in there . . if they are not steel bodies i would be a bit worried . . check your valve train geometry to make sure it is set properly. . if you dont have limited travel lifters than maybe set them to 3/8 of a turn of preload..
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Just be aware that motor is going to be a turd down low and if you're running an automatic you'll need a converter with a 3500+ rpm stall.
I don't know that is will be a turd down low or compared to what??? looking at the Dyno this engine made a min of 310ft-lbs @2500 rpm. Surely that is more than my current 351? Peak numbers were 408rwhp @ 6000rpm and 382ft-lbs @ 5200rpm all at a 13.5 AFR. Again this is a Mustang Dyno which seem to read about 30+hp lower than dynojets.

I likely put a stall in anyways, and I'm running 3.70s in a 9".
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
lol, alrighty then. I know pretty much what you got. That’s a pretty wicked cam that will have a fairly nasty idle, and as was mentioned, it won't have much power until it gets going a bit.

If it were me, I would sell the efi set up on ebay.

if you want to get max hp and top end out of it, i would buy an eddy vic jr and get it matched to the heads. otherwise an eddy rpm or similar.

If you want a carb with a choke, maybe buy the one below and buy their high flow ford kick down throttle rod for around $28.00.

830 cfm, mechanical secondary, high flow body, down leg boosters, removable air jets.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/qft-ss-830/overview/


Buy titanium valve spring retainers for the intake only. They will be around $15.00 each. Manleys are good but any are fine. This will get you a few more rpm.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/valve-spring-retainers/retainer-material/titanium/valve-spring-quantity/dual/quantity/sold-individually?N=4294918024+4294918416+4294918020+4294951810&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&tw=valve spring retainers&sw=Valve Spring Retainers


Remove one spring and have a machine shop test it to see what it is. It is common for springs to be a little lite and if they are you can gain more rpm with stiffer ones or you might even be able to simply add a shim under then to get enough pressure if they are a bit low. all these things can be done with the heads on the block.

Autolite AR3924 spark plugs.

Maybe an MSD 6 box and epoxy coil.

It will need 1 7/8” headers that are at least as big as the port on the head.

its going to need at least 3.73 gears no matter what trans you have.
.

Couple of questions, the seller mentions that this is a 10.5 CR but also states that is has 31cc dished pistons. Is it likely that 10.5CR would happen with a dished piston?

Also I just spent a bit of money on a cam swap/repair on my existing 351w. Which I may pull now before every driving it...lol. (Winter sucks)

I want to do this on the cheap if possible. I have LT's currently but they are 1.5"
Would those totally choke out this engine?

The engine will likely be complete down to the plugs, it looks like it was put together this past summer and the seller claims it has 500miles which jives with the July Dyno graph he sent me.

To do this on the cheap, can I not just swap the timing cover, install a eccentric, mech fuel pump, RPM intake and Carb? Even that than rings in at over a 1k.
 

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I don't know that is will be a turd down low or compared to what??? looking at the Dyno this engine made a min of 310ft-lbs @2500 rpm. Surely that is more than my current 351? Peak numbers were 408rwhp @ 6000rpm and 382ft-lbs @ 5200rpm all at a 13.5 AFR. Again this is a Mustang Dyno which seem to read about 30+hp lower than dynojets.

I likely put a stall in anyways, and I'm running 3.70s in a 9".
"382ft-lbs @ 5200rpm".

That says it all, right there. With a different cam & intake, this motor should make 400 lb/ft of rwt 1,000 rpm lower in the band. This build is for going WOT through the gears, not street driving. If it's a good deal, then snag it and sell off the stuff you won't be using. I'd also recommend a more streetable cam, a dual plane intake and a 750cfm carb. Yes, headers with 1.5" primaries will be overly restrictive. I'd go with 1 3/4" tubes.

"I likely put a stall in anyways..."

No likely about it. I doubt if that motor will IDLE lower than 1,000-1,100 rpm to begin with. Also, IMHO, going with an AOD behind it in THIS configuration is a waste as you'll never get it into 4th gear anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
"382ft-lbs @ 5200rpm".

That says it all, right there. With a different cam & intake, this motor should make 400 lb/ft of rwt 1,000 rpm lower in the band. This build is for going WOT through the gears, not street driving. If it's a good deal, then snag it and sell off the stuff you won't be using. I'd also recommend a more streetable cam, a dual plane intake and a 750cfm carb. Yes, headers with 1.5" primaries will be overly restrictive. I'd go with 1 3/4" tubes.

"I likely put a stall in anyways..."

No likely about it. I doubt if that motor will IDLE lower than 1,000-1,100 rpm to begin with. Also, IMHO, going with an AOD behind it in THIS configuration is a waste as you'll never get it into 4th gear anyway.

No, I meant was likely going to toss my stock stall, even if I kept my current engine.

I have an AOD which I don't like but that is what I have for the time being. I was thinking of swapping it out for a built Lentech unit (AOD) rated to 750hp.

But if I pick this engine up for about $5500 (about 50 cents on the dollar for a new stroker build locally)
Spend another 1k on Carb, intake, timing cover etc.
Another 1k on a TCI stall
Another $500 or so on headers
Another 1k on half shafts and true trac, (open diff currently)
I'll have no money for a Lentech.
 

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Couple of questions, the seller mentions that this is a 10.5 CR but also states that is has 31cc dished pistons. Is it likely that 10.5CR would happen with a dished piston?

Also I just spent a bit of money on a cam swap/repair on my existing 351w. Which I may pull now before every driving it...lol. (Winter sucks)

I want to do this on the cheap if possible. I have LT's currently but they are 1.5"
Would those totally choke out this engine?

The engine will likely be complete down to the plugs, it looks like it was put together this past summer and the seller claims it has 500miles which jives with the July Dyno graph he sent me.

To do this on the cheap, can I not just swap the timing cover, install a eccentric, mech fuel pump, RPM intake and Carb? Even that than rings in at over a 1k.
This caught my attention too.
 

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i will post some more info in a couple hours but no you can not run the small tube headers because itwill likely cause the engine to run hotter than it should . .m you can run just the eddy lower with a carb as bartyl said or run the efi if it is complete and fits under the hood . . you will get at least 20 more hp with a vic jr but you will loose a little bottom but i wouldnt care because i would only buy that engine so i could wribg every bit of power out of itthat i could . . the stud girdles are a safety precaution with small rocker studs plus you might 50 more rpm if you use them . . checking the valve train geometry insures you are getting the most power you can out of the cam . w
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Does anyone have a header recommendation? I'm looking for zero mod easy boltup on a 69 with PS and AOD.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
i will post some more info in a couple hours but no you can not run the small tube headers because itwill likely cause the engine to run hotter than it should . .m you can run just the eddy lower with a carb as bartyl said or run the efi if it is complete and fits under the hood . . you will get at least 20 more hp with a vic jr but you will loose a little bottom but i wouldnt care because i would only buy that engine so i could wribg every bit of power out of itthat i could . . the stud girdles are a safety precaution with small rocker studs plus you might 50 more rpm if you use them . . checking the valve train geometry insures you are getting the most power you can out of the cam . w
I priced out EFI and it would run me another $2500-3000 for nice setup. A carb conversion is about a 1k and straight forward so I would likely go that route + it looks better.
 

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I priced out EFI and it would run me another $2500-3000 for nice setup. A carb conversion is about a 1k and straight forward so I would likely go that route + it looks better.
ok, i thought it had all the efi stuff . . you can maybe get $130 in ehay for the eddy efi bottom or $175.00 if you have the top also . . the carb is 525.00 . . the eddy intake is around 275.00 . . the boss 302 intaklke spacer is 50.00 . . fuel rail is 25.00 so thats 875.00 minus whatever you get for the eddy stuff.
 
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