Vintage Mustang Forums banner

281 - 300 of 324 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
I want to thank Waid for all his work and research for this EPS setup. I found his youtube videos back in Oct and have been on the hunt for parts. my closest PullaPart is 50 miles away and doesn't have anything newer than 2004 so last week I bought a complete steering column(steering wheel to linkage) off ebay and the module in a separate auction..


My intention is to piggy back on Waids work and take the next step of enabling the tilt and telescopic column AND move wiper/washer and turn/lights to the Prius/Corolla stalks(adding an elect washer pump motor). I have found that the 04-09 Prius only has tilt and its tilt mechanism seems to be more difficult to make work. It appears that the 2010+ Prius or 09-13 Corolla has tilt/telescopic and the mechanism is more low profile(I have ordered one but dont have one in hand yet). Also note that if you aim to use the wiper/washer switch make sure you don't get a hatchback as it has rear wiper/washer on the stalk too.


The progress that I can report is that the 68 wiper motor is two speed and hooking up the Prius wires not only works but the Intermittent function works (the relay and capacitor are built into the switch) and I suspect the "mist" function works because the motor kicks on when you hold the switch. I have not tested the washer functions yet but this is the wire connections that I have so far.
Prius connector C13(A):
wire 2A(white/black) goes to ground;
Prius connector C14(B):
wire 1B(small green) goes to mustang motor wire 28A(black)
wire 2B(large green) goes to mustang motor wire 63(red)
wire 3B(large red) goes to mustang motor wire 58(white)
wire 4B(large white) goes to mustang motor wire 56(blue)



Did you make any progress on this? I'm really interested to see if this worked out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,198 Posts
happen to have any photos?
Here you go. It's a pretty thick bracket and does not budge at all. (of course the picture is sideways, but you get the idea)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
798 Posts
For those who are concerned with return to center I performed an experiment. I myself are not concerned with it. I just steer it into a corner or turn and just steer it out, I don’t even think about it it comes naturally.

I have a Equinox unit with the Bruno box. I cranked the assist up all the way. Drove thru my neighborhood made turns and wheel returns to center like one would expect. Turn the assist to the level to about ¼ that I normally set it to and it’s sluggish to return. It starts to return but doesn’t quite make it.

My reasoning is these systems that we are adapting to our cars the assist is controlled by a computer that's using a speed sensor signal at the minimum. And some of them use yaw rate sensors in addition. So at slower speeds they can offer added assist which helps with return to center.

So by using it in fail safe (which I heard it defaults to about 40 mph) your never going to get the full function of the unit. Same thing if you have a Bruno box. You need to input a signal the way the powertrain computer inputs to the EPS computer. It may not be just a speed signal.

I know when when EPS came out for the vehicles I was working on they were too sensitive at hiway speeds. They ended up having a ECU re-program to address the issue. The re-program was to the engine/trans ECU.

I myself love my EPS with the means to control the assist with a rheostat. I have it about 4 years made a big difference the way it drives compared to the OEM PS with the ram/control valve setup. Not concerned with return to center but thought I was pass along my observations to those that are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
I’m reading this thread with high interest - you guys do nice work!

Has anyone compared this solution to the Microsteer one you can buy from Flaming River? The hardware looks awfully similar, and the ECU/tuning box seems to function like Andrew described in his Cougar thread.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
I’m reading this thread with high interest - you guys do nice work!

Has anyone compared this solution to the Microsteer one you can buy from Flaming River? The hardware looks awfully similar, and the ECU/tuning box seems to function like Andrew described in his Cougar thread.
I have mentioned the DCE Microsteer system before and have actually had some conversations with their main engineer. The installation manual posted on the Flaming River website is very interesting:

http://www.flamingriver.com/download2.php/products/c0013/EPAS/FR40200?instructions

They mounted the steering unit on the engine bay side of the firewall. Presumably this is OK even with the heat generated by the exhaust which looks very close. I like the firewall mounting, because it will make for a very solid installation. I am not sure if the same can be done in a Mustang or a Cougar, but it is an interesting options. The other benefit of having a firewall mounted unit is that the clocking of the motor becomes less of an issue. The only reason I picked the Prius set-up over others is the fact that the motor was clocked to the passenger side. I did not want to mess with the vent.

In all honesty, if I knew 100% for sure that the Microsteer had better return to center feel than my current set-up, I would probably swap over. I just completed a 1000 mile road trip in the Cougar, and while the steering is OK, the on center feel when going down the highway is really not that great. It is less of an issue when driving around town, but long distance travel, on mostly straight roads is pretty annoying.

Andrew
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
798 Posts
I have mentioned the DCE Microsteer system before and have actually had some conversations with their main engineer. The installation manual posted on the Flaming River website is very interesting:

http://www.flamingriver.com/download2.php/products/c0013/EPAS/FR40200?instructions

They mounted the steering unit on the engine bay side of the firewall. Presumably this is OK even with the heat generated by the exhaust which looks very close. I like the firewall mounting, because it will make for a very solid installation. I am not sure if the same can be done in a Mustang or a Cougar, but it is an interesting options. The other benefit of having a firewall mounted unit is that the clocking of the motor becomes less of an issue. The only reason I picked the Prius set-up over others is the fact that the motor was clocked to the passenger side. I did not want to mess with the vent.

In all honesty, if I knew 100% for sure that the Microsteer had better return to center feel than my current set-up, I would probably swap over. I just completed a 1000 mile road trip in the Cougar, and while the steering is OK, the on center feel when going down the highway is really not that great. It is less of an issue when driving around town, but long distance travel, on mostly straight roads is pretty annoying.

Andrew

On center feel at hiway speeds and return to center around town is two different things. You either have loose steering components, a loose steering box or a too tight steering box. Miss adjusted toe can also cause your problem. Another thing is misalignment of the steering shafts connected to the EPS unit causing binding.

Did you have manual steering or power before the EPS install. Mine is rock steady at hiway speeds of 70-80 mph and I barely hold the steering wheel like a modern car. Another thought is lack of being able to adjust the assist may cause it. Being default at 40 mph is not the amount of assist you want a 70 mph
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
798 Posts
Years ago I had to attend a 3 day school for my job. It was 180 mile round trip and car I drove had a binding steering shaft u-joint.

That thing kicked my butt. When you try minor corrections to the steering it wouldn't respond and then when it did it was too much. Constantly correcting for like 2 hours.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
On center feel at hiway speeds and return to center around town is two different things. You either have loose steering components, a loose steering box or a too tight steering box. Miss adjusted toe can also cause your problem. Another thing is misalignment of the steering shafts connected to the EPS unit causing binding.

Did you have manual steering or power before the EPS install. Mine is rock steady at hiway speeds of 70-80 mph and I barely hold the steering wheel like a modern car. Another thought is lack of being able to adjust the assist may cause it. Being default at 40 mph is not the amount of assist you want a 70 mph
My Cougar has a TCP manual rack and new TCP suspension. When the steering was manual it had excellent on center feel and almost violent return to center. Nothing changed besides the addition of the Prius steering gear.

I have incorporated the Yaris steering ECU and have a speed input going to it from my Holley Dominator ECU, so my level of assist is automatically adjusted. Steering feel is actually quite good around town, but as the level of assist decreases, damping also goes up, which makes steering feel numb on center.

When I fabricated the upper shaft, I was very careful in making sure that it was straight. While it does have some runout (about .010") I don't think it is enough to cause any binding, but maybe that much is enough. I don't know.

Details of my Prius EPAS installation can be found here:
https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mod-custom-forum/1147680-67-cougar-toyota-prius-epas-install.html

I am open to suggestions...:shrug:

Andrew
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
I will own up my mistakes for the benefit of giving good information for other users.

While all of my parts are "new" they are 4 years old and have 15K miles on them. I jacked up one side and wiggled the tires side to side and noted a lot fo play. Further examination showed that my TCP rack had quite a bit of play in it at the bar where the inner tie rods mount.

I was pleasantly surprised to find someone available on the TCP tech line. After a brief chat, he suggested adjusting the backlash set-screw on the rack. It seems that after break-in and some miles, they tend to wear in a bit. I followed the procedure as best I could, working on my back, then went for a drive.

On center feel is much improved, still a little numb, but better than it was. I am going to fiddle with it some more, but I thought this post would be helpful to others.

Andrew
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
798 Posts
Glad you found something, does actual rack move up and down or just in and out. The up and down would be the bushing in the housing worn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Glad you found something, does actual rack move up and down or just in and out. The up and down would be the bushing in the housing worn.
The TCP rack is actually mounted solid to the frame. The rack mounts to the point and replaces the front crossmember. The inner tie rods are bolted to a separate bar outside of the rack. For a lack of better term, I will call it the drag link.



If you are on Instagram, I posted a short video.

The rack and pinion gears are straight cut, so overtime the backlash needs to be adjusted. Here is the adjusting nut:


Andrew
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Andrew, glad to see you are still around and have made the speed sensitive part work. I wasted the entire winter on other projects and never got around to trying the speed sensitive mods. I am still using the flashing LED to provide the turn on pulses.

Have you pinned down how many levels of assist and damping the Yarus unit has?

Glad to see your rack adjustments have helped a little with the return to center, I have a standard steering in the 56 Fairlane and feel the return is almost the same as it was before the conversion but the Fairlane suspension is like driving a couch with 2 fat ladies on the ends so I never lost any handling as you would have to work at it to make it any worse.

Look forward to your future posts Kevin (kevink1955)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Andrew, glad to see you are still around and have made the speed sensitive part work. I wasted the entire winter on other projects and never got around to trying the speed sensitive mods. I am still using the flashing LED to provide the turn on pulses.

Have you pinned down how many levels of assist and damping the Yarus unit has?

Glad to see your rack adjustments have helped a little with the return to center, I have a standard steering in the 56 Fairlane and feel the return is almost the same as it was before the conversion but the Fairlane suspension is like driving a couch with 2 fat ladies on the ends so I never lost any handling as you would have to work at it to make it any worse.

Look forward to your future posts Kevin (kevink1955)
Hey Kevin,

I am sorry for not posting on the other forum, but yes, I am still at it and driving the Cougar daily.

I have not done any more direct testing with the Yaris ECU. For a while I got somewhat discouraged and have just been driving the car. I felt that having the EPAS was better than not having it, so I lived with imperfection, for a lack of better word.

Finding the issues that I did today have given me hope that I can get the Prius/Yaris combination working as well as I have always hoped. In fact, after tightening the rack and addressing another issue, I am very pleased with the results.

I am going to get the car on a rack in the near future and really go over all of the steering components as well as thoroughly inspect the other suspension components. What's becoming very clear is that if there is ANY....I mean ANY slop in any of the front end components adding EPAS will result in less than optimal results. Because of the way the EPAS operates, every component in the chain between the steering wheel and the tire contact patch must be evaluated, and if slop is found, it must be fixed.

Here is the video of the slop:


Andrew
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
I worked out a way to achieve automatic progressive steering using the NON ABS version of the Yaris ECU. This has no Canbus.

I used the information in post #268. I calculated that with my final drive ratio I needed a hall effect sensor LJ12A3-4-Z, and a 4-magnet collar on the differential input flange. I bought a collar S-37X from Motorsportsinnovations.com - they are available for different flange sizes. I mounted the sensor to the diff and set a gap of 3mm. I connected the sensor output to the VSS pin (D31-5) on the ECU and immediately had fully automatic speed-variable progressive assistance. Easy and involves no Canbus trickery at all.

This may not work on the ABS units
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
I also acquired a large number of the power connector bodies and the matching spade connectors for the Yaris / Prius EPS

These are available for 15$ US including postage per set if you email me at [email protected] I will send you a PayPal invoice and the parts will hit the post as soon as you pay.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
I also acquired a large number of the power connector bodies and the matching spade connectors for the Yaris / Prius EPS

These are available for 15$ US including postage per set if you email me at [email protected] I will send you a PayPal invoice and the parts will hit the post as soon as you pay.
Dominic,

Thanks for tracking down those connectors and terminals. They are impossible to find in the US. If anyone wants these, don't hesitate to deal with Dominic! I got some from him and they are exactly what is needed.

Andrew
 
281 - 300 of 324 Posts
Top