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Discussion Starter #1
The following TITLES ONLY for 1965 and 1966 K-code VIN's have been sold lately on eBay from seller lornfornwal0 from Carlisle, PA.

5F09K317613 for $700 + shipping:
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback K code body paperwork document original | eBay

5F08K169421 for $700 + shipping:
1965 Ford Mustang convertible k code body paperwork document original | eBay

5F09K274978 for $700 + shipping:
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback K code body paperwork document original | eBay

5F08K236789 for $700 + shipping:
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback K code body paperwork document original | eBay

6F08K137418 for $700 + shipping:
1966 Ford Mustang Fastback K code body paperwork document original | eBay

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I have seen more and more highly questionable K-code Mustangs in the last 10 years. If you see a K-code that smells like fraud, looks like fraud, and walks like fraud, it is probably fraud.
 

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I notice it looks like the listings have ended early due to "an error in the listing". Somebody, rightfully, must have ratted him out. While it's perfectly LEGAL to sell old titles, the seller would be "smart" to include a statement indicating "for display purposes only", and not allude to the fact that you can and should use it for registration purposes. I can't see how he's getting a Notary to certify that the signature of the seller (the original owners name on the title) is genuine, either.
 

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eBay has a policy that forbids the sale of a title without the car. It does take several complaints before they will pull the auction.

Z
 

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Discussion Starter #4
SOLD

746970


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I notice it looks like the listings have ended early due to "an error in the listing".
Four of five were SOLD.

Somebody, rightfully, must have ratted him out. While it's perfectly LEGAL to sell old titles, the seller would be "smart" to include a statement indicating "for display purposes only", and not allude to the fact that you can and should use it for registration purposes.
I highly doubt $700 K-code titles were bought for framing purposes or anything outside of being used with a unibody fraudulently. The seller is enabling a strong potential for fraud, plain and simple. I don't see it as constructive for the hobby to be giving him suggestions on how to go about doing it better to cover himself.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
eBay has a policy that forbids the sale of a title without the car. It does take several complaints before they will pull the auction.

Z
Four of five were sold and the fifth was ended early by the seller. Probably ended for an offline deal. eBay didn't pull any and I rarely ever see them act on reports unless reported by a law enforcement or copyright protection marketplace participant.
 

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At the boss site, the fraud Boss 302 cars vins are listed. Whenever someone sees something, vins is listed with the facts of shadiness.
 

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It's a real problem because it not only defrauds a buyer, or even the buyer after that....it also devalues true k-codes because it may bring into question their legitimacy OR simply saturate the market with "k-codes".

That being said...I like my c-code just fine. I can do whatever I want with it (and have) and don't have to worry about originality much.

Phil
 

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May get flamed for this but for me what makes the K code is the K motor, without the Hi-Po its a plain Jane
 

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May get flamed for this but for me what makes the K code is the K motor, without the Hi-Po its a plain Jane
For me it's just one of 26 letters in the alphabet that happen to be stamped in the car and printed on a piece of paper. Absolutely no meaning or value to me as it;s just a letter to me.
 

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Hey, I have a K code, for the paint. Nightmist Blue. That is however, how the guy listed it. '1967 K Code Convertible' back in 91. Had to school him.
A while back there was a clown here who came across a 6cyl with the K in the VIN in on the fender stamp. An obvious mistake, but was trying to get the title changed here in NC so he could sell it as a K code. Cars here are titled by the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin, not from what's stamped in the sheet metal though they do need to match. Don't know if he was successful.
 

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SOLD

View attachment 746970

SOLD
View attachment 746971

SOLD
View attachment 746972

SOLD
View attachment 746973

ENDED
View attachment 746974




Four of five were SOLD.



I highly doubt $700 K-code titles were bought for framing purposes or anything outside of being used with a unibody fraudulently. The seller is enabling a strong potential for fraud, plain and simple. I don't see it as constructive for the hobby to be giving him suggestions on how to go about doing it better to cover himself.
Don't you find it strange that all of them sold for the exact same price? It smells fishy to me.
 

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Four of five were sold and the fifth was ended early by the seller. Probably ended for an offline deal. eBay didn't pull any and I rarely ever see them act on reports unless reported by a law enforcement or copyright protection marketplace participant.
There’s still a prohibition against it even if they are lax or nonexistent in the enforcement. I had to play hell multiple times when a seller was using my pics and copying my posts selling the same thing. There is a rule against that but it took a bit of time to not only take down the posts but then ban the seller when they kept putting them up.
 

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He should have included a bolt and just call it a K-code mustang. No one has ever defined how much of car has to be original to not be fraud or considered rebody.
 

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May get flamed for this but for me what makes the K code is the K motor, without the Hi-Po its a plain Jane
Well, the K code cars automatically got all the performance suspension and chassis parts later seen on the GT, and the front springs on the K code were stiffer than the A code GT. The K's were more than just the sum of the parts, Ford achieved a sort of performance gestalt with the K codes.
 

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Anyone researching a future K-code buy will google the vin and see this thread.

This is what makes my T-code extra valuable. No one will ever question its authenticity.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
It's a real problem because it not only defrauds a buyer, or even the buyer after that....it also devalues true k-codes because it may bring into question their legitimacy OR simply saturate the market with "k-codes".
Great point. Increasing supply does devalue legitimate K-codes. It is not isolated to a couple events. I'm seeing more and more of it from dealers that work with classic cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
He should have included a bolt and just call it a K-code mustang. No one has ever defined how much of car has to be original to not be fraud or considered rebody.
Thankfully sites like HiPo Mustang forum, ConcoursMustang forum, SAAC forum, Boss302 forum take fraud and enabling fraud seriously, it is a reflection on the members ethics. --- Only on VMF do I see posts from individuals like you (DonP) and Woodchuck going as far as giving a seller that enables fraud suggestions on how to go about doing it better :sick:
 

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Thankfully sites like HiPo Mustang forum, ConcoursMustang forum, SAAC forum, Boss302 forum take fraud and enabling fraud seriously, it is a reflection on the members ethics. --- Only on VMF do I see posts from individuals like you (DonP) and Woodchuck going as far as giving a seller that enables fraud suggestions on how to go about doing it better :sick:
:-( There's nothing wrong with selling titles....or, for that matter, any other automobilia. It's a popular and commonplace activity. You'd know that if you ever went to a large swap meet, like Hershey, etc. Making sure you advertise that your titles are "for display purposes only" protects the seller AND provides law enforcement with additional evidence of a crime should a buyer fraudulently use those documents. If you think sellers of titles need any suggestions on "how to do it better" you assume that they're all computer illiterate and thing Google is something you do with your eyes....
 

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Discussion Starter #20
:-( There's nothing wrong with selling titles....or, for that matter, any other automobilia. It's a popular and commonplace activity. You'd know that if you ever went to a large swap meet, like Hershey, etc. Making sure you advertise that your titles are "for display purposes only" protects the seller AND provides law enforcement with additional evidence of a crime should a buyer fraudulently use those documents. If you think sellers of titles need any suggestions on "how to do it better" you assume that they're all computer illiterate and thing Google is something you do with your eyes....
I go to meets across the country. The $700.00 K-code titles highlighted in this thread clearly do not appear to be sold for display purposes. We both know that and you are offering the seller suggestions on how to enable fraud better.
 
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