Vintage Mustang Forums banner

1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,881 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm not even close to the point of even gathering stuff for my engine build yet (still on rust replacement duty)... but when I'm working on one part I like thinking about the future plans. Today my wild hair is my engine build. Currently stock 351W with and FMX. Tranny will eventually be a T5 or the like, and I have the Explorer Rear that will be going in (3.73, posi etc). Disk brakes on all 4.

For my build I want to stroke it. I don't plan on taking it to the track, but I want to be able to blow the doors off anything if the moment arises. I think of older mustangs and I think muscle, I think muscle and I think displacement. I'm considering http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ESP-14623125/ for the stroke, GT40 heads (still a good route post stroke?), some form of aljminum intake, carb thinking edlebrock 750(ish), or a top end kit of some sort... this is where I'm getting overwhelmed with not sure what will work well after the bottom end gets stroked.

It will be driven at the very least on weekends. I am basically building it for excessive power and neck snapping goodness. I'm probably way overdoing it with my plans... but I always plan big and scale back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Look at a probe 393 kit or a 408 if you want to drop some more cash. Flat top with aluminum heads will net a nice powerful engine. I would use Trick Flow or AFR heads with a nice single plane intake like a Vic Jr. or something. Pic a roller cam and use the crane retro lifters so your cam choices are not limited. Jmho.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,881 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Incrementally as much as I need. I can get a big part every month (paycheck) until I hae everything I need for the build. Probably between 2-3K a month. a few months and I can get all the expensive pieces together I would need.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,844 Posts
If you build a 400 hp motor and get any kind of traction and try slapping that T5 around you are going to break it. Go toploader, tremec or richmond.

I can tell you that with 450 HP+ on street tire first gear is going to be pretty much useless unless you get really serious about traction devices. I have Caltracs, mono springs, 3.25 gears, C6 and some really sticky tires. Finally got it where it will hook up in second gear. Probably go faster in the quarter launching it in second as trying to get traction in first is impossible. I'm trying drag radials next.

Oh, I'm getting 580 ft/lbs of torque from a stroked FE motor. Stupid power. But it cost me. $10K in the motor but it is bulletproof.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
If you build a 400 hp motor and get any kind of traction and try slapping that T5 around you are going to break it. Go toploader, tremec or richmond.

I can tell you that with 450 HP+ on street tire first gear is going to be pretty much useless unless you get really serious about traction devices. I have Caltracs, mono springs, 3.25 gears, C6 and some really sticky tires. Finally got it where it will hook up in second gear. Probably go faster in the quarter launching it in second as trying to get traction in first is impossible. I'm trying drag radials next.

Oh, I'm getting 580 ft/lbs of torque from a stroked FE motor. Stupid power. But it cost me. $10K in the motor but it is bulletproof.
Friend of mine had power like that years ago in his classic mustang. When he finally got it to hook up it would shatter the back window when he launched.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,881 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
My intention for this is actually to overdo it. This is my first project and I want to do everything myself (minus paint... it just doesn't interest me right now... maybe in the future though). I'm pretty good with bodywork, so I'm not too worried about that. For the engine I have my 315W that I plan to pull to build, and have a 302 I will drop in there to drive around with while I'm building the engine.

I figure this is a good opportunity to tear the engine apart, and rebuild it (probably too extreme for what I will use it for, but why not go overboard?)., and really learn the engine from inside out. My next project I will pull it back to a more reasonable level... or find something a little more rare to restore but not mod. I'm looking at this as more of a learning experience for what I can do, learn, and make possible. I know I'm bound to make a lot of mistakes, but if I do it's a pretty standard common block to replace (worse case scenario) and I already have a solid back up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,234 Posts
Like others have said a T-5 is not something you want to put behind a stroker motor. It will break very quickly. Even the beefed up versions of the T-5 are not something I would waste my time on. For what you are talking a TKO-500 or TKO-600 is more than up to the task and will meet your "over do it" requirements. Now is probably the time to be thinking about this because these transmissions will require some modifications to the transmission tunnel. These transmissions will also give you an extra gear to work with for highway cruising and the ability to run more gear (you could easily run a 4.11 and more with this transmission).

As far as the engine goes, parts selection will have alot to do with how much hp you want, what rpms you want to keep it at and how much money you are willing to spend. In general, there are really no reasons to not go with a 408 or 418 kit. More cubes and more stroke for more torque over the 393. The 418 will cut into your max rpms slightly over the 408 with a stock block due to the rod/stroke ratio. When using a stock 351w block for a stroker hp is usually not the limiting factor; rpms are. You usually want to keep rpms below 6500 with a stock block and closer to 6000 is better yet.

There is one set of heads that always comes to my mind when I think 400+ cubic inch stroker build and that is the Trick Flow 205cc CNC twisted wedge head. They have the required minimum port cross section for an engine this size, altered valve location over stock to unshroud the intake valve from the cylinder bore which is a problem with larger inline heads like the AFR 205 and 225, and stock exhaust port locations which makes header selection much easier. The length of the intake port is different then that of an inline head so a Trick Flow 205 is a much larger head then an AFR 205. The Trick Flow intake port measures 1.75" while the AFR intake port measures 2.00" in lenth. This is true of any stock valve location, inline head. This is important to remember when selecting a cylinder head.

Do not mess around with dual plane intakes on this engine, they simply will not be able to move enough air to feed it. A Vic Jr. is actually going to be on the small side but a Super Victor will not fit under a stock hood so there are limitations. If you get really serious with this engine, a professionally ported Vic Jr. would really wake your engine up and give it the plenum volume it would need to feed this engine.

As always I recommend going with a custom camshaft as it is designed specifically for your engine components while an off the shelf cam is going to be a compromise and cost you power and driveability. A billet, roller camshaft, hydraulic or solid would help you get the most out of your engine due to the more agressive camshaft lobe profiles while keeping the rpms down in comparison to a flat tappet camshaft. Also, the break-in procedure is also much less stressful with a roller camshaft vs. a flat tappet.

The most important things to remember are going to be to keep the rpms in a range that you will be driving in and that the engine will live a long, happy life, get an intake manifold and heads that are properly sized for your engine and rpms, and build the rest of the car to handle the power that you will be putting down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,947 Posts
. I'm considering Eagle Specialty Products 14623125 - Eagle Competition Rotating Assemblies - Overview - SummitRacing.com for the stroke, GT40 heads (still a good route post stroke?), some form of aljminum intake, carb thinking edlebrock 750(ish), or a top end kit of some sort... this is where I'm getting overwhelmed with not sure what will work well after the bottom end gets stroked.

I always plan big and scale back.
The GT40 heads are barely adequate on a 302..There is no way they are going to feed a stroker motor..Also that kit that you listed is for an aftermarket block with a bigger bore so it won't work with your windsor block either...There is lots of good advice listed above as to what to build...Just be certain your wallet is ready for it..Probably gonna run you $8000ish if your starting from scratch..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,234 Posts
Great points by frdnut. The kit that you have listed has a piston diameter of 4.125". As frdnut mentioned this is only possible with an aftermarket block that has more meat around the bores. Factory blocks have a maximum overbore of .060", while many cannot be taken past .030" because of the lack of material around the cylinder bores. If you go past .030" you will want to have the block sonic checked to see if there is enough material around the bores to go that far.

As far as Eagle engine products go, they make nice parts, but I have heard from several people who do this for a living that they constantly see Eagle parts out of spec, right out of the box. They often need resized which is going to cost you more money. For this reason many of them use Scat components. Scat has a wide array of stroker kits available for the 351w. Don't forget that you are also going to want to have the rotating assembly balanced.

I missed the part about the GT40 heads. As frdnut pointed out these heads are restrictive on a 302 cubic inch engine let alone an engine that would have 100+ more cubic inches. You need to think big here; just because this engine start out life as a "small block" you are no essentially turning it into a big block and big block cubes need lots of air. As I mentioned before the Trick Flow 205cc twisted wedge heads are right up your alley for the various reasons I mentioned.
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top