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Discussion Starter #41
one more question, when I prime the oil pump, which direction do I turn the pump. Clockwise or counter ?
 

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counter clockwise, run the drill in reverse
 

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1966 Mustang GT 4sp Nightmist Blue
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one more question, when I prime the oil pump, which direction do I turn the pump. Clockwise or counter ?
I’m not sure why it matters unless it’s just out of curiosity? You seem beholden that something magical will happen. Even if by some measure you got any oil pressure the engine still needs to be removed. In your video you can hear how loud the lifters are(sign of oil starvation) meaning it needs to come apart regardless to see what can be repaired. I guess I’m just not understanding you methodology?

Chris
 
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My guess is you have a piston siezing, Bearings don't usually squeak when they go they knock. DO NOT TURN THAT MOTOR OVER AGAIN unless you have money to burn. YOu don't need metal between your cam and lifters...

If I understand correctly and I don't know 6s well but I think they have hydraulic lifters, SO, you do not have an oil problem or they would be screaming and they aren't. Drop the pan and put a flashlight on the cylinders look for vertical scoring. Next pull bearings till you find the culprit. If everything is clean in the bearings you can just torque them back down. Look for a bearing in backwards where the tab is opposite its cooresponding slot.

Did you or a machinest gap the rings? DId it get bored with a boring tool that mocks head bolts torqued? Did he bore to a spec or to the pistons? CHeck to see that the rods were getting oil to the wrist pins.

THe story will be revealed when you pull the pan...

Hang in there brother...
 

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I'd say at this point you need to do something. I rebuilt a Cheby six in a 64 Cheby II Nova once without taking the motor out of the car. I pulled the head, pulled the oil pan I did have to remove steering linkage. The engine didn't require boring so I honed the cylinders will a honing bit on an eclectic drill. I took the crank and had it micro spec'ed and got the bearings from the parts store that ground and polished the crank. I had the head worked in a shop since I didn't know much about headwork then. Had the valves ground and new seals. the lifters were fine and so was the cam so I reused them. I had the shop put the rings on the pistons when they checks the pistons on rods. In your case you may need rings, lifters, maybe a cam since you can the engine dry, a crank or at a minimum having it ground.

Alternatively you could look for a good working motor. They are out there.

Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Hey guys,
I wanted to give you an update on my engine. I have fully removed the engine to see what is going on. When I opened the valve cover, i seemed pretty dry, like the oil was not pumping through. I removed the head. There was not much oil there either. The cylinders look to be in good shape, with the exception of on mark on the last cylinder wall. See picture below.
I took the block out and removed the oil pump and pick up. I can't tell is that is working or not or if I am maybe missing a part ?
My question, do I need to remove the crankshaft bearings to see if there is any damage there ?
Do I need to bring this back to the machine shop and have them take a look ?

Here are a bunch of pics and a video of me cranking the shaft


751947
751948
751949
751950
751952
 

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When you pulled the distributor out was the shaft underneath it that runs the oil pump? If you didn't see it you would have probably heard it hit the ground when you turned the engine over. You'd definitely have seen it when you pulled the oil pump off. Can you spin the oil pump by hand or with a drill?

I'd probably pull the rear most crank bearings just to have a look. But I'm just impatient and wouldn't want to wait till Monday to take it to the shop. I'd pull the rear, or maybe the one before it just to not mess up the rear main seal just because those are the furthest from the oil pump.
 

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Yup that sound was your rear piston seizing. So, did you have that motor built or are you teh builder and you had a machinist do the machine work? IF you had it built, I would take it back without touching anything. If you built it, you cannot know how much damage there is till you pull a bearing or two. I would pull a bearing farthest from the oil pump as if there was an issue, it would show up worst there. I would pull one main and one rod. If they are fine due to assembly lube, I would re-assembly lube each bearing again before running it.

Next, the scoring, can you feel it with your fingernail? In the best case, you might be able to hone it a little, drop new rings in and run it. Generally if you cannot feel it with a fingernail, it should be fine. I have run engines with some minor scoring but understand it will likely have a shorter life e.g. 30-60k instead of 100k but could be fine for a while. May burn a little more oil and eventually drop compression a little but you could get a few years possibly 10 if you are a weekend dairy queen guy. The piston will need to be dressed out, I would use 1000 grit wet-or-dry with WD 40 and see if you can smooth the skirt. OR just buy another piston - again, depends on how bad teh scoring is. Most important is the ring landings must be clean and undamaged. The skirt is more forgiving.

Make sure you figure out why the motor ran dry, the head under the valve cover should have been soaked, drained but wet. Check between the cam distributor gear and the oil pump. Are you sure you put the hex shaft in??? Disassemble the oil pump, check all the seals on the sump. I would bolt the pan back on with an old gasket if in one piece, no glue. Drop some oil and run the pump with a drill - figure out what happened or it WILL happen again. be careful, it the pump is working, it will squirt up the oil holes and create a fail moment covering someone with oil.

Finally, how did the oil look? Did it have a metalic paint look or was it clean. IF clean your golden, if it had metal in it, I would disassemble the block, have it cleaned and clean every part carefully - the metal will destroy a cam very quickly, inspect each cam lobe and lifter carefully. If the oil was clean, try to get assembly lube on the lobes and lifters again even if you choose not to remove it. Don't mix up lifters if you do remove it, they have already started to mate and they are quite monogamous, they mate for life...

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #56
First off, I rebuilt the engine myself. I had a machine shop do all the block boring and head. I did all assembly. Ok, I figured out that problem. That is a start. I installed a new oil pump. I did NOT install the shaft that runs the pump. I missed it. Again, my first engine rebuild. See the picture below

752002


I pulled the bearings on the crank shaft and they look fine. No scoring or damage noticeable. ? I have not checked the piston bearings. That is next.

To answer the question about metal in the oil, there was a very finite amount, but not much.

My biggest concern is the score mark in the last cylinder. You can feel it with your fingernail for sure. This is a weekend driver and I will probably move onto a better car someday. I want it done right and good.

752004


Do you think I need to strip the block all the way down and have the last cylinder re-bored or can I try to hone it or should I just leave it alone ?

thoughts ?
 

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This thread was painful to read.

I think you need to have somebody help you who really knows what's going on. There's at least three critical things you did not do--1. check bearing clearances with a plastigauge, 2. prime/test the oil pump. If you're priming the pump and see no oil coming up through the pushrods and down over the rockers that tells you to not proceed especially because you did not 3. Install the oil pump shaft. You need to get your block and crank to a machine shop who can look it over and repair any damage. The fourth thing you're doing wrong is not heeding the information that's been given to you here very well.

This all really sucks because it is a total bummer to do all this work only to have it fail. So let us help you, don't ignore us! I don't trust what you're saying when you say bearings look fine, because I'm not convinced you know what to look for in light of the other oversights. Seriously, take your block into a machine shop and let them look at it. Maybe let them assemble it too.
 

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First off, I rebuilt the engine myself. I had a machine shop do all the block boring and head. I did all assembly. Ok, I figured out that problem. That is a start. I installed a new oil pump. I did NOT install the shaft that runs the pump. I missed it. Again, my first engine rebuild. See the picture below

View attachment 752002

I pulled the bearings on the crank shaft and they look fine. No scoring or damage noticeable. ? I have not checked the piston bearings. That is next.

To answer the question about metal in the oil, there was a very finite amount, but not much.

My biggest concern is the score mark in the last cylinder. You can feel it with your fingernail for sure. This is a weekend driver and I will probably move onto a better car someday. I want it done right and good.

View attachment 752004

Do you think I need to strip the block all the way down and have the last cylinder re-bored or can I try to hone it or should I just leave it alone ?

thoughts ?
Yes strip it down! You might be able to save it.
It probably been asked before but did you check the piston ring end gap before you installed them?
Most piston ring manufacturers recommend a minimum end gap of . 004 inches times the bore diameter for the top piston compression ring.
If it was mine I would pull all 6 pistons and inspect each cylinder for problems.
Then check the ring gap if you didn't gap them. You might want to invest in new rings. Depends on what they look like on inspection.
I can not see any cross hatch from honing in the cylinders walls. If you do not know what cross hatch is ask before you do the honing.
Get a good cylinder hone and hone each cylinder. Not a glaze buster but a hone is what you need.
After you finish finish the honing be sure to wash each cylinder with soap and water . Use white rags and continue washing until you are sure there is no grit left in the cylinders or it will eat up the rings.Be sure to clean up the crankshaft! Any grit left in the crank will wipe out the bearings. Did you check all the bearing clearances with plasti gauge? If not, do.
When you re assemble it put plenty of oil on each piston BEFORE you install them.
When you get it back together don't start it until you check back. Someone will help you with priming the system and setting up your timing.

Good luck, yarb
 

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Discussion Starter #59
guys, I appreciate all your feedback. How do you learn without doing. That is what I am doing. It's tough when you don't have a guru nearby to call on. I got pretty far with this forum. I made one mistake, critical at that. Now I am back to square one.
I will bring the block back to the machine shop and see what he has to say. That is my next step. Unfortunately we are all locked down in my area, so I can't go anywhere.
Once I find out the damage I can go from there.
As I have mentioned before, this is my first rehab project and I am learning. That means mistakes will be made. It does suck to have to start over with the build, but I am confident I will get it back together.
 

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guys, I appreciate all your feedback. How do you learn without doing. That is what I am doing. It's tough when you don't have a guru nearby to call on. I got pretty far with this forum. I made one mistake, critical at that. Now I am back to square one.
I will bring the block back to the machine shop and see what he has to say. That is my next step. Unfortunately we are all locked down in my area, so I can't go anywhere.
Once I find out the damage I can go from there.
As I have mentioned before, this is my first rehab project and I am learning. That means mistakes will be made. It does suck to have to start over with the build, but I am confident I will get it back together.
Jared, there are people on here that can rebuild engines with there eyes closed. If you are not sure of something ASK BEFORE YOU DO ! We are here to help.
 
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