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Discussion Starter #1
Hello:

I don't own a "vintage" Mustang (mine's a '93 LX), but I keep in touch with lots of Mustang folks here in Frederick MD. I have been asked about an engine swap for a 1966. It came with a 289 2bbl and a 4-speed (top-loader?!). The owner is looking for 400-450 naturally aspirated hp. Anyone here transplanted a late model 5.0 block in this kind of setup? To my knowledge, the owner wants to stay carb'd. His expectations sound a little high to me without the help of a power adder. He wants the car to remain streetable. I think he's leaning towards a newer block to take advantage of the roller hydraulics. I suspect there will be issues with accessory mounting, since he wants to keep the A/C.

I'd appreciate any input on this project.


Thanks.
 

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I am running a 94 302 motor with an X303 cam, trick flow track heat heads. I was told by a couple of people that I will have near 400hp. The motor is carbed also. The blocks and heads are the same on the outside so the parts will interchange. What AC unit is he using and what pulley combo is he going to use. This is where he might have some issues. Look at March pulleys they may be able to help.
 

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Chapter 7 of:
Ford Windsor Small-Block Performance
By: Isaac Martin
ISBN: 1-55788-323-8

... talks about this swap. All the changes necessary to drop in 5.0 are listed as well as converting to fuel injection.
I'm running a 5.0 in my '66 Fastback, and expect I'm in that 400 HP range, but I've not been on the dyno yet.

Good Luck,
 

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Swapping a 5.0 in is rather easy, as it is basically a 302 which is basically a 289 .. physically. I just got my 5.0 in my 66 and it was a lot easier than we thought. 450 naturally aspirated carbureted RWHP though? Just tell him to expect to put $5000 in that engine. It's definitely possible, but he's going to have to build a 7500RPM girdled everywhere monster with a huge cam, big intake(victor jr at least), and free flowing aluminum heads(AFR 185's anybody?) and have it all tuned just like dynamite. Definitely possible but the strength and durability of the 302 block might then be the bottleneck. Tell him to step up to a 351 windsor, same size block physically, you couldn't tell the difference unless you're a gearhead. So it will fit just like the 5.0/302, granted you need special headers, intake, etc but you'd be replacing all that on a hot 302 anyways and a lot of the 302HO/5.0 parts crossover into the 351W/5.8 engine. For a similarly built 351W that maybe redlines at a more "street"able and safe 6500 and still puts out that kind of power, you're looking at the same price range, granted you can find a good block. Good luck finding a newer roller 351w block, your best bet is to order a sportsman block from FRPP(ford racing perf. products) themselves. let us know how it goes.
 
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I believe the A/C is equipment. Not sure what pulleys. This is new ground for my mechanic (mostly 4 cyl SCCA stuff) and the owner is guessing too. My experience with late model 5.0's is pretty much all we have to go on. I think the most important issues are compatibility of the block with the motor mounts/k-member, the bellhousing of the 4 speed. Since 94's use an intank pump, is that the setup you are running? If so, how did you compensate for the high psi fuel pressure of an EFI pump vs the lower mechanical carb-type pump?

Thanks for the info!
 

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If he is wanting that kind of power, he should look to Fird racing. Tell him to go with the 351 crate motor....Also, Summit, and Jeg's have these available....And, they come with a warrenty...
 
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Discussion Starter #7
That hp is flywheel, not rear wheel. My bad.

Thanks for the replies, everyone. Whether vintage or not, Mustang owners are by and large the best folks for helping each other out!
 

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A newer 5.0 will bolt straight in. He can use the new style belt system and A/C pump. Note that the water pump is reverse flow. The only problem I had was finding the radiator hoses with the correct fit. Basically, I purchased a bunch of hoses that looked about right and returned the ones that did not fit. The current issues of Mustangs and Fast Fords has motor build-ups. Over 400 HP is very do-able but he will have to plan carfully. Good heads and a matched cam is very important to acheive that kind of power. Good luck and have fun.
 

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Yes, I have a FRPP 302 in my '65 fb. There is more than one way to bolt in FRPP horsepower. Mine uses '66 stamped frame brackets, Lakewood Muscle motor mounts, '69 351w 164 tooth toploader bell housing and clutch components, California Pony Cars adapters and a FRPP T5-Z. The driveshaft is shortened 1" and I use 3:50 8" Ford gears. Intake is Weiand Stealth with Holley SA 570 double pumper and headers are Hooker. Distributor is Mallory dual points with Mallory wires. Accessories mount on early timing cover and Total Performance fuel pump eccentric. Fuel pump is early Carter with integral filter ('65 289). Dress up parts are FRPP and R&M. Radiator is 3 core. Lower radiator hose is stock and upper hose is '64 Galaxie 289. Harmonic balancer is NPD conversion part matching 3 bolt pullies and stock accessories. Some minor rework of a/c bracket was necessary to accommodate 7/16" bolts rather than stock 3/8" bolts in the front of the engine. All the wiring is stock with the exception of the Holley electric choke. I used new aftermarket sensors for gas, oil and temperature. The temperature sensor and the heater return line needed brass adapter fittings to fit the Weiand manifold. Oil pan is aftermarket front sump using the late model 5.0L pan torque spreaders. There are a lot of fasteners to buy if you want all new and/or chrome (I did). I got chrome fasteners from the local Harley-Davidson parts vendor. This is a $10K project.
 

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I see that you are in Federick, Md, I'm located in the Glen Burnie area. The 66 Fastback has a new 5.0 block with a stroker crank that makes 342". The assembled block, heads, and valve gear set me back about $4600 dollars. This included AFR 185 heads, forged pistons, 5.0 style billet flywheel (157 tooth), vibration damper, high volume oil pump, roller rockers, solid roller camshaft, high performance timing gear set, and everything balanced to 28 oz specs (Ford recommends stroker 5.0s balanced to 28 oz). To this basic setup, I added (at additional cost of course) an Edelbrock aluminum water pump, MSD 6AL ignition, Super Victor intake, Holley 750, 8 qt oil pan, Ford high-torque mini starter, Holley performance mech fuel pump, and Hooker Competition ceramic coated headers. The 5.0 style flywheel allowed the use of the new type diaphram clutch (Centerforce Dual Friction); yet I was still able to use the original 66 aluminum bellhousing, throwout bearing, and Z-bar clutch setup (connected to a close ratio toploader). The Z-bar engine-side pivot adaptor was required as the new blocks don't have a tapped hole like the old blocks. In my case, I used the water pump with the intake on the driver''s side so that I could use a crossflow type radiator. As it turned out, it was a good idea as the new damper had the timing marks graduated for a pointer on the passenger's side. I'm sure this engine approaches your horsepower requirements, was a breeze to install, and has performace that I haven't tapped into yet. I had considered 351Ws, and had latched onto a number of them over the years. However, when it came time to do the engine, I opted for the 5.0 block for weight, space, originality, and maintainence considerations. If you would like to see the installation or have any questions, feel free to e-mail me.
 
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That is excellent info! I have forwarded this url to my mechanic so he can browse the responses and form a plan for doing the upgrade. This may be asking a lot, but if you wouldn't mind, could you give him a call and fill him in on your car? His name is Scott and he is the owner of Frederick Motorsports - (301) 694-8550. I'll shoot you a private message with my info so we can hook up and shoot the breeze. My wife and I usually hit MIR around October for the IHRA drags.

Thanks!
 
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Hehehe...

I've been thinking about the possibility of a 351 in a '65 or '66 and am glad to see people here doing that. I've got a Jeg's catalog open on my lap right now and - in case anyone's curious - here are the prices.
5.0/302 (345HP aluminum head) $3300.00
5.0/302 (270HP iron head) $2800.00
5.8/351 (385HP) $5700.00

And in case you feel like racing...

460 CJ (535HP race / 486HP street) $5600.00
514 CJ (600HP) $8100.00

Kai
 
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