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Discussion Starter #41
Thanks for the replies.

Woodchuck this Mustang has never been apart; I believe this is a factory idler arm( I could be wrong). Thankfully I was able to get it off the frame rail. My wife has owned this Mustang since it was made, except for the first 1500 miles. Weird!

Awhtx, the metal pieces are soft and flexible like a piece of lead. I could bend it or tear it like a piece of paper. I do not think this metal could be located on a rotating part of this engine, like a connecting rod or a main bearing rod. The metal would be destroyed with any continuance impacts. Also, I have no knocking engine noise and the metal pieces appear to have been in the engine a long time. There is no sign of a recent failure on the metal pieces. Could they be from the cam shaft? If I were to guess, I would think this metal is some type of a bushing material from a component that does not rotate during operation. Could the pieces come from the distributor mounting hole? Are connecting rod shells actually made of soft metal?

I will proceed to the cleanup now.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Still working this project, but the thread has drifted a bit due to "one thing leading to another".

Thus Mustang is a stock 1968 coupe with 289 V8 with automatic transmission. It has never been apart since new.

So, I cleaned up pan and oil pump pickup screen which was almost 100% plugged with sludge. I was able to remove the distributor after soaking the mounting point with PB Blaster. Used a wooden block to bang the side of the distributor near the block with medium size hammer and then applied Marvel Mystery oil around the distributor and let it soak overnight.

The next day, the distributor would rotate easily. Removed hold down bolt which was loosened, and with a 1" X 3" piece of wood on edge, used a crowbar under the distributor body and pried the distributor out. It came easily.

I installed an electric drill oil pump drive shaft from Summit and bolted the shaft support thingie to the block with a pan bolt and washer so it would not rotate.

I installed the pan with a few bolts and poured in oil lubricant made as follows; 2 quarts of Marvel Mystery oil and 3 quarts of 5-30 wt oil. The aim was to flush the engine and determine if oil is getting to lifters and bearings.

Since the oil pump shaft turns CCW, I had to use my old cordless electric drill which is too weak. I was able to get oil flow to most lifters most of the time, but the drill batteries just can not handle the torque to really get good pressure. Pressure developed was about 15 -20 psi and drops as batteries die.

So have a corded 1/2 inch reversible drill on order and waiting. (Could not find a rental).

One question, what kind of flow should I be seeing? The flow out of the lifters is more of a dribble than anything. This is good in that the valve covers are off and I can see each rocker, but the flow seems low maybe.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Installed a corded 1/2 inch variable speed reversible electric drill and was able to get 40psi at the higher drill speeds. I got flow from all rockers except cylinder #5 Intake. Rotated the engine by hand to different locations CW, but still no flow out of #5 I. Rocker and push rod are open. Is there any way to get flow to this rocker short of a tear down?

The lifter is free in the hole as it does come up and go down. Should I do some sort of flush? Mineral spirits, engine flush, etc?

Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #44
After soaking for a couple days, finally got oil out of Rocker on #5 Intake with electric drill, oil pressure at 40psi. So all rockers now have oil flowing at a rate that seems low, but they are flowing. I noticed that the lifters do bleed down fairly fast after they have "rocked".

Any thoughts would be appreciated, any! Thanks
 

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The 1/2" electric drill does not spin the oil pump as fast as the distributor does so lower pressure and less flow are to be expected. I'd put it back together and drive it.
 

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You know, while you have the pan off, I would consider pulling a rod cap (if you have a torque wrench to replace it, most autoparts stores loan them free). A photo I would definitely like to see!

That would tell you the true status of the car. If you have crap in teh oil and it has scored or starved a rod bearing, its gonna catastrophically self destruct pretty quickly (throw a rod e.g. broken rod, toasted crank and 50:50 broken block) and cost you a lot more money plus towing. IF the bearings look clean, you can have some confidence in driving the car farther than a block from home...

You still havn't identified the item in the pan and there is just no wishing metal parts in the pan away unless you know for sure its something you dropped in at some point. something is gonna go, this is no time to cut corners while you're in this far...
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Good idea on checking the rod bearings. I have a torque wrench. The pan had never been off this engine before now. The engine had been run many times in last two years at idle without incident until it just died; no bad sounds. The metal I found in the pan might be babbitt as it is nonmetallic and very flexible. Looking from the bottom of the engine up, it appears cam bearing babbitt could come away from the bearing shell and drop down into the pan.

It just looks to me that the metal had been in the pan for a long time; the car sat under a tree for 30 years and was never started until recently. The engine has 128,000 miles on it. I am baffled.

But I will check a couple rods. Maybe I can get a photo with a cap off. We shall see.

Just another side comment. This engine has three freeze plugs from the factory that are not metal; they are the kind of rubber stopper that has a nut on to tighten up and seal the hole. 1968 was a bad year at Ford.

Thanks dobrostang.
 

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Good idea on checking the rod bearings. I have a torque wrench. The pan had never been off this engine before now. The engine had been run many times in last two years at idle without incident until it just died; no bad sounds. The metal I found in the pan might be babbitt as it is nonmetallic and very flexible. Looking from the bottom of the engine up, it appears cam bearing babbitt could come away from the bearing shell and drop down into the pan.

It just looks to me that the metal had been in the pan for a long time; the car sat under a tree for 30 years and was never started until recently. The engine has 128,000 miles on it. I am baffled.

But I will check a couple rods. Maybe I can get a photo with a cap off. We shall see.

Just another side comment. This engine has three freeze plugs from the factory that are not metal; they are the kind of rubber stopper that has a nut on to tighten up and seal the hole. 1968 was a bad year at Ford.

Thanks dobrostang.
I seriously doubt those rubber expansion plugs were installed at the factory.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Awhtx, I agree about the expansion plugs. Very unlikely. But my wife acquired the car with 1500 miles on it, and it has never been worked on until now. She drove it and did not have any major work done it. I had to replace one that looked like it had been there forever. A mystery!
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Back on this project, I pulled the rod cap on cylinder #3 and the crank journal looked OK and the rod journal seemed OK without any groves and was smooth. See the attached photos.

I reinstalled the cap and torqued to specs. I installed a Felpro silicone one-piece pan gasket with some sealer on the oil pan at the front and rear pan rail - crank junction point. I inspected the new gasket on the pan before installation and noticed the pan is rounded at the junction points which may cause a leak. Therefore the sealer.

As a side note, I noticed that the front two bolts for the passenger and driver side pan rails have a step in the block pan rail about 1/16 inch deep (for some unknown reason). I figured the new pan gasket which has an internal metal stiffener would not seat well in the front. So I fabricated a pan rail filler from a piece of flat plastic to take up the gap so the new gasket would lay flat in that area. All pan bolts torqued to specs.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
 

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Im not sure that “ your pan filler plastic“ is going to work well and may be a source for a leak. You might want to reconsider that one piece gasket if it doesn’t fit will.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Well, the one-piece fit well all around, but I was concerned about the front pan rail area; each step was a different length, one was about 3 inches and the other 2 inches long. I used permatex #2 on the plastic against the block. The one-piece then laid flat; the one-piece was installed dry. The reason for the step in the pan rail in that area escapes me, but an original cork gasket would have taken up the gap, but maybe not the one-piece, so I filled the gap.

I had read that some people have had problems with the one-piece gaskets leaking, maybe the gap is the reason. The one-piece had no provision for filling the gap and still lay flat against the pan rail. Curious?

I plan to restart the engine soon and see what happens. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Well, the engine is all back together. However, it will not start. Not even one little poop.

When I installed the distributor, I had the timing pointer on the block pointing at TDC on the balancer. I had the rotor (cover off) pointing at #1 spark plug (I had marked the edge of the distributor) adjusted for a few degrees CCW due to distributor drive gear rotation when extracted. The distributor dropped in nicely and seated with the rotor pointing to #1 spark plug. Cylinder #1 piston was at the top.

My understanding is that every time the rotor points at a given plug wire and the points open the ground is broken and the secondary ignition seeks ground through the plug wire and across the spark plug, thereby producing a spark that fires the compressed fuel.

So, I am scratching my head and decided to check the points gap (found .021 which is spec), and the pointer on the block was at TDC on the balancer. But the rotor is pointing exactly 180 degrees away from the #l plug wire on the distributor. Which leads to my question.

Can a 289 V8 distributor be installed 180 degrees out of phase? And would this be the reason the engine will not fire? When running a drill to get oil to rockers, I rotated the engine many times by hand (spark plugs removed).

Any thoughts would be appreciated. What other issue would keep the engine from firing?
 

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Yes you can absolutely put in the distributor 180 degrees out and cause the engine not to fire. Easy to do and everybody here who's taken the dizzy out has probably done it at least once (whether they admit it or not).

You just need to make sure the rotor's in the right place at TDC on the #1 cylinder's compression stroke and you should be good.
 

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Discussion Starter #57
Thanks Magnus! I must have done that inadvertently. I should have proved I was on compression stroke by watching the #1 cylinder intake valve, which I did not do. It must have been on exhaust stroke. Ouch!

So, I have to restab the distributor after watching the #1 cylinder intake valve. So, I will go back to work.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
So, I spent a lot of hours today trying to restab the distributor. I ran into a bit of an issue.

I verified that I was on compression stroke at cylinder #1 by turning crank with the fan (some spark plugs out) and watched #1 cylinder intake valve. Set crank at TDC on balancer.

Using marks I had made on the distributor prior to removing, and setting rotor CCW from #1 cylinder position, I tried to stab the distributor many times. I could not get it to drop in and point to my desired mark. It did drop in several times but the rotor was pointing either right or left of the desired point, which was cylinder #1.

I fiddled around for a while but finally realized the oil pump drive rod was hanging the distributor from dropping; it was leaning over to the side and would not slide into bottom of distributor. The distributor rotor shaft rotates as the distributor gear engages the camshaft gear. So, I used the drive shaft that I used with the electric drill and turned it by hand to various random locations. I just kept stabbing the distributor until it finally dropped in and bottomed out and pointed to my desired point.

I reinstalled plugs and wires and valve cover and other parts. I pumped the throttle twice and the engine fired up on first rotation. I tweaked the timing to 6 degrees BTDC and adjusted the idle screws a bit; idle vacuum in 19+ and is fairly smooth.

So, the engine is up and running.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
It has been awhile. Just another note. I have the engine running with the following info. I installed an old Stewart Warner Sun Tach and have engine at 180 degrees idling at 600+ rpm. Oil pressure is about 20 psi at idle and I am using Shell Rotella T1 SAE 30 oil, which supposedly has 1200 ppm zinc. Engine is idling smooth after warmup with vacuum at 19+ inches of HG. Engine (289 V8 with 2100 2 barrel carb) has 128k miles on it and never been apart. Hydraulic lifters. (To solve the problem that started this thread, I installed a new Blue Streak coil which seems to have solved the issue, a coil going bad)

I have some lifter noise. Is this normal? Is there any way to quiet them down short of a rebuild? Maybe an additive?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
 
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