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Discussion Starter #82
Theoretically the lifter does not ride on the edge of the cam lobe. The base of the lifter is supposed to be convex.
This is what we thought as well. Still leaves us wondering what causes the damage there though, we did not find that many shards in the oil pan.
 

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This is what we thought as well. Still leaves us wondering what causes the damage there though, we did not find that many shards in the oil pan.
By my eye it looks like the faces of the lifters are worn concave, you might want to pull the valve covers and see if all the rockers are moving the same amount, or just bite the bullet, pull the intake and examine the lifters directly.
 

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I would run it, the lobe and lifter are not centered with each other. You can see half the lifter in the one pic, proving my point. The shiny edges (the area of the lobe that contacts the lifter) seem to be opposite of the damage so it shouldn't hurt the lifter.
 
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Discussion Starter #85
I would run it, the lobe and lifter are not centered with each other. You can see half the lifter in the one pic, proving my point. The shiny edges (the area of the lobe that contacts the lifter) seem to be opposite of the damage so it shouldn't hurt the lifter.
Nice find, I see that now too indeed.
 

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Discussion Starter #86
]Hey guys,

Small update:

Before I decided to install the oil pan again I wanted to check if the oil pump was an original since I have had read the following online:

"Excessive distributor gear wear can be a problem with Ford engines. Most of the time, the problem is a result from the use of a high volume oil pump. High volume oil pumps put a lot of stress on the distributor and cam gears. A high volume oil pump is not necessary on a street driven engine that turns no more than 7000 rpms. Only extreme racing engines require the high volume pump. Should you use this type of oil pump, the following precautions will save your distributor gear from early destruction."


Turns out we actually have a HV pump:
762435


Do you guys think this can be the cause of the problem?
 

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Hmmm… Now you have me wondering. When I rebuilt my 289HP in 1981, I installed a TRW HV pump. That was more than 200,000 miles ago.
 

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Honestly I'd swap it out to a standard pump. The HV can add a lot of stress and unless you really feel the need for it I'd just eliminate it as a possible issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #91
Honestly I'd swap it out to a standard pump. The HV can add a lot of stress and unless you really feel the need for it I'd just eliminate it as a possible issue.
I mean it works, so I wouldn't see why it causes a lot of stress other than pushing out move volume.
 

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I mean it works, so I wouldn't see why it causes a lot of stress other than pushing out move volume.
exactly, it takes more effort to turn the pump so its harder on the distributor, drive gears, driveshaft.

Back when I had a high volume pump in my Cleveland it took an extremely tight distributor hold down to keep it from moving, bronze cam gear wore very fast even for bronze. I then switched a melonized gear and standard pump and haven't had an issue.
 

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]Hey guys,

Small update:

Before I decided to install the oil pan again I wanted to check if the oil pump was an original since I have had read the following online:

"Excessive distributor gear wear can be a problem with Ford engines. Most of the time, the problem is a result from the use of a high volume oil pump. High volume oil pumps put a lot of stress on the distributor and cam gears. A high volume oil pump is not necessary on a street driven engine that turns no more than 7000 rpms. Only extreme racing engines require the high volume pump. Should you use this type of oil pump, the following precautions will save your distributor gear from early destruction."


Turns out we actually have a HV pump:
View attachment 762435

Do you guys think this can be the cause of the problem?
As I said several pages back in this thread, plenty of SBFs have chewed up distributor gears due to running a HV pump. I’ve seen it several times. It adds a lot of unnecessary stress to the gear.
 

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Discussion Starter #95
Hey guys I am back with another update:

So we decided to go with a new cast iron gear and give it another go after reinstalling the oil pan and mounting a mechanical oil press. gauge.

After setting the ignition timing right on TDC we decided to crank it, no luck as it appeared to fire a little too late. After advancing the timing it fired right up and idled pretty damn good, no excessive smoke coming out of the exhaust whatsoever. We decided to let it idle for a couple of minutes while checking gauges, temps etc. We had about 40-45 psi at idle (cold start) and the temp gradually increased to the center of the gauge so that all seemed good.

After 10 minutes we wanted to check the C4 automatic transmission since we replaced the gaskets of that pan too. So we shifted from neutral into reverse and right when that happened the engine STOPPED running and didn't want to start again. So we thought it would be the same issue again and decided to take out the distributor right out to inspect the gauge:
763145
763146


As seen in the images the new gear already seems to be scratched heavily. That's when we decided to inspect the cam gear, so we cranked the starter and the cam gear WAS NOT ROTATING anymore. This leds us to believe the timing chain or gears have snapped because the crankshaft rotates just fine.

We now think this was also the cause of our first break down because the symptoms seamed very similar but this time it happened while idling instead of 60mph, thus not eating up the gear.

What do you guys think, what might cause these breakdowns? And how is it related to the shifting that we did?
 

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If the camshaft isn't turning something has broken or come loose in the timing chain and/or gears. You will be pulling the water pump and timing cover to find out what it is.
Possibly the woodruff key that "locks" the crankshaft timing gear to the crankshaft has sheared. You can check that by pulling the harmonic balancer before you remove the water pump and timing cover.
 

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I don’t see anything that looks bad on that distributor gear. Did you use marking paint and check the witness marks after installing the new distributor gear? It’s funny how it’s common practice on a differential, but nobody seems to want to do it on a distributor. I always do it.

If the timing chain broke, be prepared for more carnage. You’re going to want to make sure the valves didn’t hit the pistons.
 

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Discussion Starter #98 (Edited)
I don’t see anything that looks bad on that distributor gear. Did you use marking paint and check the witness marks after installing the new distributor gear? It’s funny how it’s common practice on a differential, but nobody seems to want to do it on a distributor. I always do it.

If the timing chain broke, be prepared for more carnage. You’re going to want to make sure the valves didn’t hit the pistons.
You might want to zoom onto the images I posted, it's small but it's there.
 

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Steve, the timing chain could have broken, the drive pin in the end of the cam could have sheared, or the key in the crank snout could have sheared or come out. But, you have to remember, your engine was assembled with at least SOME junk parts. Look at your camshaft pictures. The little pockmarks on the cam lobes tell us the cam was probably rusty and should have been discarded. What ELSE was done wrong, who knows.

But, just for a minute, lets get back to the HV oilpump. It is NOT causing your problem. Yes, there are people who don't know what they are talking about that think that HV pumps hurt cam gears. What I'm telling you, with 35 yrs engine shop experience, is that the HV pumps are not the problem. In the strictest possible sense, the HV pump pushes out 20 % more oil, so it could increase the load by 20%. But that is not a life VS death issue when the gears and drive are strong enough to withstand several hundred pounds of force. Go out to the garage and do a little test. Get a 5 pound bar, and do a couple of presses, weightlifter style. Then get a six pound bar and do the same. Can you even feel the difference ? And your camshaft gear and distributor drive are LOTS stronger than you are.

Yes, I know there are people who have anecdotal stories of problems, some of them personal. Did those folks work for a machine shop owner with 35 yrs of experience ? I'll bet not. There ARE however, lots of engines assembled with incorrect oiling, the wrong assembled height, incompatible parts, or just plain junk parts. Many home builds are not even CLOSE to clean enough inside. The fact that the engine had a bronze gear in it, and that fact alone, tells us that at least SOME of the parts were chosen incorrectly. The rust pockets and chips on the cam tell us at least SOME of the parts were junk. Sorry. LSG
 

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Discussion Starter #100
Steve, the timing chain could have broken, the drive pin in the end of the cam could have sheared, or the key in the crank snout could have sheared or come out. But, you have to remember, your engine was assembled with at least SOME junk parts. Look at your camshaft pictures. The little pockmarks on the cam lobes tell us the cam was probably rusty and should have been discarded. What ELSE was done wrong, who knows.

But, just for a minute, lets get back to the HV oilpump. It is NOT causing your problem. Yes, there are people who don't know what they are talking about that think that HV pumps hurt cam gears. What I'm telling you, with 35 yrs engine shop experience, is that the HV pumps are not the problem. In the strictest possible sense, the HV pump pushes out 20 % more oil, so it could increase the load by 20%. But that is not a life VS death issue when the gears and drive are strong enough to withstand several hundred pounds of force. Go out to the garage and do a little test. Get a 5 pound bar, and do a couple of presses, weightlifter style. Then get a six pound bar and do the same. Can you even feel the difference ? And your camshaft gear and distributor drive are LOTS stronger than you are.

Yes, I know there are people who have anecdotal stories of problems, some of them personal. Did those folks work for a machine shop owner with 35 yrs of experience ? I'll bet not. There ARE however, lots of engines assembled with incorrect oiling, the wrong assembled height, incompatible parts, or just plain junk parts. Many home builds are not even CLOSE to clean enough inside. The fact that the engine had a bronze gear in it, and that fact alone, tells us that at least SOME of the parts were chosen incorrectly. The rust pockets and chips on the cam tell us at least SOME of the parts were junk. Sorry. LSG
Thanks again for the clear explaination LSG. Do you think it would be best to disassemble the engine as a while or would be replacing the cam, lifters and possibly the timing chain be enough?
 
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