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IF your timing chain broke, and you continued to try to start the motor, the term we use here in America is: "Boat anchor". I believe there is a relatively good chance you have bent some valves and possible piston and perhaps head damage. If the cam isn't turning, there are valves that are stuck down but unfortunately the piston is still coming up - CRASH!!!

This motor needs a bullet put in its head, call a priest to deliver last rights and pull it. Its just all wrong! Everything you do to try to patch it is just gonna be a waste of money! Time to start thinking about what kind of motor you want to build. Since you are replacing the cam and carb anyways, plan the motor from carb to tailpipes so everything is matched to do exactly what you want the car to do.

...and as for high volume pumps, you are fixing a non-existent problem in these motors. For drag racing motors that really don't get broken in, they set the crank bearing tolerances looser and make up for the gap with a high volume pump. As you can already see, cam gears take a beating in these motors, this is a significantly more common point of fail, than insufficient oil volume. So why put more stress on that part of the system for absolutely no redemable value? I believe you would be hard pressed to find a small block Ford owner that will tell you, my properly built street motor with less than 250k miles on it had oiling issues - and a HV pump solved it. Its usually a choice while looking at the catalog with the thought process of more is better. Are there people to use them succesfully, obviously, does that mean its the right answer - you gotta decide...

Good luck,

M
 

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Woody from Fordstokers has probably built more SBF engines than anyone in the world. He has shown many times how the HV pump can do damage, but I’m sure he doesn’t know what he’s talking about 🙄

There have been plenty premature cam/distributor gears true to HV pumps, and it’s not because LSG knows more, or hasn’t seen one. They do happen, and 20% more output doesn’t not equate to 20% more load on the gears because those numbers aren’t going to be linear. 20% more output will be exponentially higher load on the gears, so his example is pretty well null and void. That’s not even covering how he me mentions your distributor being assembled with the wrong parts (bronze gear), when your gear clearly isn’t bronze. Maybe he’s confused.

And furthermore, SBF benefits zero from having one. Don’t need, and it’s undue stress. If a HV pump “fixes” anything, the person working on it doesn’t know what they’re talking about and couldn’t identify a problem.
 

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Mustang 1966 coupe and a 1969 Mach 1
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At this point, with all that trouble, i would pull that engine out and strip it. See what you actually have in that engine and what is actually going on in there.
 

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Mustang 1966 coupe and a 1969 Mach 1
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I used to be a BMW motorcycle technitian for 13 years, rebuild a dozen of transmissions/engines for those.

I rebuild 3 SBF sofar myself. A 289 for my 66, a 302 for my dad's 71 Grande and a 351W for my 69 Mach 1. A good workshop manual and the manufacturers manuals for the (performance) parts at hand did the job. The first 2 are mildly tuned with Edelbrock Cam, Carb and intake, nothing crazy, just a bit more HP. The 351W came without heads, so it was a blank canvas. Put all sorts of performance stuff on it. Rollin' Thunder cam, Edelbrock RPM Alu heads, Airgap intake, Fitech EFI. I also went with a full roller Camshaft and roller rockers.

Last one hasn't been on the road yet. It's currently at the body shop for paint.
 

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Woody from Fordstokers has probably built more SBF engines than anyone in the world. He has shown many times how the HV pump can do damage, but I’m sure he doesn’t know what he’s talking about 🙄
My engine builder is a True Blue Ford man and he refuses to put an HV oil pump in a Ford engine running standard bearing clearances.
 

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Steve, Sports is right about one thing, I confused you with someone else's bronze gear. Other than that, he doesn't know what he is talking about. I haven't seen Woody demonstrate an HV pump hurt a cam gear. When looking at which pump to run, Awhtx is on the right track, alot of this depends on what clearance your bearings have. Personally, I would rather see the earings on the looser side, and run the bigger pump. The bigger clearance on the mains lets more oil volume flow over the bearings surface, and thereby keeps the bearings cooler. Trying to run the crank tight doesn't help you. Given that we just don't know WHAT your engine was assembled with, other than a junk cam, I'd take it all the way apart and try and figure out whats really going on in there. LSG
 

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Again, because you haven’t seen it, doesn’t make it so. Just like woody expressed in the old days on sbftech repeatedly that HV pumps put undue stress on the gear, many many many many many other people have seen it too. Just because you haven’t seen any of these things doesn’t mean they don’t happen and there are more than enough examples out there showing it. Look, another builder just above your last post says it too.

the SBF oiling is great. LSGs shop must build a lot of SBCs, because thats where that looser bearings and HV pump crap comes from....
 

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Sports, the bearing clearance / oil volume idea applies to all brands. I've never said the Ford Windsor series had an oiling problem. If you want to run tighter, and run a std pump, I don't care. But many knowledgeable folks use the larger pump to free up some power and provide cooling to the bearings for heavy duty useage. I don't know Woody personally, but I have read the tech papers from Melling, and they make the std pumps, the HV pumps, and they make camshafts. I've never heard or read them cautioning me against using a bigger pump.

I wonder, out of the many, many, many folks who have had problems, how many checked the mesh pattern ? How many used oiler plugs ? How many used the correct gear material combination ?

Do you have any links to Woody's alleged demonstrations ? LSG
 

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I do all of those things. As mentioned here, I check the mesh pattern every time, and even recommended the OP do that, and it seems to have been overlooked. I’ve seen it happen. We agree on most things performance oriented, but we will just have to agree to disagree here. For every builder that runs the HV pump, there’s another that says not to.
 

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I actually think you aren't disagreeing. You (all posters) seem to agree that a street engine built with the right distributor gear, with correct gear meshing, will last longer than the rest of the engine. Eventually, the gear will wear out (as will all parts in the engine) and a HV pump might cause that wear to come sooner than later but in either case way past the engine's life expectancy. On the other hand, a HV pump might also allow the bearings to last a bit longer as their gap increases so ...
Nice discussion. :)
 

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JUST an FYI for future reference and for others who may run into the same issue as OP, this video has the absolute info someone would need regarding proper Distributor gear type vs. cam type:


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As for the OP, after pulling the pan, also check the oil pick up tube (remove and do a chemical wash). Taking those steps should eliminate most of the metal particles from those areas.

If it were my engine, I’d still be concerned if any smaller metal particles made it through to the bearings or scored the cam surfaces and begin doing a tear down.
 

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I will check, remove and clean the oil pan and pump. Any suggestions on how to test the condition of the gear on the cam?
You might be able to look at the gear through the distributor hole while having someone rotate the crank so you can see the whole gear.

oops, already posted!
 

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Discussion Starter #114
JUST an FYI for future reference and for others who may run into the same issue as OP, this video has the absolute info someone would need regarding proper Distributor gear type vs. cam type:


—-

As for the OP, after pulling the pan, also check the oil pick up tube (remove and do a chemical wash). Taking those steps should eliminate most of the metal particles from those areas.

If it were my engine, I’d still be concerned if any smaller metal particles made it through to the bearings or scored the cam surfaces and begin doing a tear down.
Our current plan is to remove all accessories and radiator plus fans and then disassemble the engine down to the pistons, inspect the valves and replace at least the cam with lifters.
 
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