Vintage Mustang Forums banner

41 - 60 of 96 Posts

·
Just some guy
Joined
·
19,997 Posts
adelyser-Rebel's looking to improve upon his car. Doesn't seem the place to badmouth what he's got just because it's not my personal preference. If you care to dig back in the "Mod and Custom" forum there are at least two good lengthy discussions of the pro's and cons of MII swaps. Well worth searching for but you'll have to go back a very good way. Over a year I think.
You guys do realize that with an MII he has a rack and pinion (and a very good one I must admit). No idler arms to be rollerized. Nor does the Arning drop apply.
Alignment suggestions are good though. Different specs for cars with Arning drops and cars doing track duty apply to OEM type suspensions which an alignment shop wouldn't know about unless you told them. It may be that you can add a little camber or something to make it "feel" better. (After you get a swaybar). Or find a shop where the alignment guy knows how to adjust things outside what the book calls for. And good luck with that. Such guys exist but are VERY hard to find.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Thanks GypsyR, I'll have to go digging then! I wasn't wanting to hijack his thread anyways.

Looks like the swaybar is in order, let us know how that turns out!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,607 Posts
Well, having driven both quite a few miles and sometime on the same day, I can honestly say that my '66 drives ALMOST as well as my '05 Magnum, which has ESP (Electronic Stability Program). Of course, the Magnum is also a good 1,200 lbs heavier.... All I did was what Shelby did. The Arning drop, higher spring rates, competition alignment, Quick-Steer, 16:1 box, and more rubber hitting the road. Just enough understeer remains to keep it from getting "twitchy".
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,730 Posts
So, if I am reading this right, as long as I do not have an alignment spec for bias ply tire car, I should be pretty close since we are running radials?

Well then it's a no brainer--I need to get that bar that Heidts says will work with there front end kit I have. I must admit, this '68 does remind me how the drag car feels on the road (our class requires a 30 mile road cruise) of course it is sway bar delete.


So, maybe my new KYB's aren't as bad as I thought and that a sway bar will make a bigger difference than higher $$ shocks.



Yes this helps a ton!! I appreciate your suggestions and the compliment. The Heidts bar is 7/8". I am leaning to wards that since I assume they are recomending that to go with their M11 kit ans an option. On the other hand, in your opinion, should I be looking for a 1"' bar from someone else for say, a '78 Mustang?

Thanks Again!!
So, if I am reading this right, as long as I do not have an alignment spec for bias ply tire car, I should be pretty close since we are running radials? Yes!

So, maybe my new KYB's aren't as bad as I thought and that a sway bar will make a bigger difference than higher $$ shocks. Yes!!

In your opinion, should I be looking for a 1"' bar from someone else for say, a '78 Mustang? IMHO, I would be looking for the largest I could get- 1 1/8" up to 1 3/8" diameter. Years ago, Guldstrand & (I an't remember the other suspension gru) had a competition regarding suspension concepts...in summary, oversized sway bars on a relative oem suspension with good shocks performed as well as moderate size sway bars with a highly modified custom tuned suspension..literally within a few thousands of time in a salom test with the same driver! Some may imply that oversize sway bars will induce a rough ride, but it does not since the sway bar only restricts body lean and the suspension (springs, shocks) actually control bounce, recovery & dampening (ie the ride quality). If it is possible to get one from Heidt's that's where I would go 1st- if they do not then I would get the recommendation where they have theirs made, and push for the hollw tube type- again, a little more $ but a beautifull a car as what you have, its really pennies for what the return will be.

on my Mustang, I am running 1 3/8" front & 3/4" rear (full adjustible) with KYB's, 620 lb front springs, rear's are original shelby's- at least from the shop ...running old school BFG's, 60 series......plenty of good, stable ride quality, and excellent (for the tire rating) emergency handling capability (ask me how I know- grin)! My wife has a 1997 Cougar Sport (V8, 4-wheel oem independent suspension, etc) we ordered it new.....long story short, with the swapping out of the Goodyear rubber for Yokohama AVID's and later YK580's & the addition of GR-2's the high & low speed handling of the car is as close to calling equal with the mustang as one could say without doing a formal test track eval....and my wife really likes car that "handles"....in a side by side so to speak, we compared her's years ago to a new 7 series BMW...which belonged to a very good friend....and while there is always driver skill that must be taken into consideration, the cougar ran within 2 feet of the BMW in a drag up to 80 mph...then the BMW had the gears...in handling, we out ran the BMW by 2 mph in low speed corners (under 45 mph) and I would say it was very close to equal in corners up to 80 mph....and as I inferred earlier. this cougar handles very, very similar to the mustang now with minor upgrades.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,452 Posts
Agree, front sway bar will help you a lot - PO of Jane put an extra-beefy one on her and the handling is pretty great with little body roll (also have subframe connectors, export brace, Monte Carlo bar, R&P, and KYB shocks, so I have a similar setup to yours minus the MII suspension).

So here's a question: front sway bars are great, but what is the purpose/benefit of a rear sway bar? I notice that not many people on this thread have mentioned it. Why is that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,896 Posts
Discussion Starter #47
So here's a question: front sway bars are great, but what is the purpose/benefit of a rear sway bar? I notice that not many people on this thread have mentioned it. Why is that?
I thought that I read somwhere that rear anti sway bars on a leaf spring car can have some negative handling charastics--I'd be interested in hearing more also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,802 Posts
A rear sway bar will reduce understeer (the car under-responding to steering commands), and may even induce oversteer (the back end sliding out). Most American cars tend to understeer- which might explain why some people who install them on their Mustang feel they reduce handling performance (because they are accustomed to understeer).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,756 Posts
Agree, front sway bar will help you a lot - PO of Jane put an extra-beefy one on her and the handling is pretty great with little body roll (also have subframe connectors, export brace, Monte Carlo bar, R&P, and KYB shocks, so I have a similar setup to yours minus the MII suspension).

So here's a question: front sway bars are great, but what is the purpose/benefit of a rear sway bar? I notice that not many people on this thread have mentioned it. Why is that?
Rear sway bars will cause oversteer and are a waste of money on these cars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,671 Posts
In your opinion, should I be looking for a 1"' bar from someone else for say, a '78 Mustang? IMHO, I would be looking for the largest I could get- 1 1/8" up to 1 3/8" diameter.
If the end-link holes are spaced the same on your suspension as the stock 68, get a 1" 68 Mustang bar. Don't get the bigger bar you suggest, it'll be too harsh for the street. "Bigger is better" is NOT true in this case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,671 Posts
Rear sway bars will cause oversteer and are a waste of money on these cars.
When I upgraded my suspension, I used a 1" front and 3/4" rear. Later, I broke a bracket on the rear, and removed it to avoid problems while I repaired it. I liked the handling better, and never put it back on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,452 Posts
Interesting! PO put a 3/4" sway bar on the rear. How is the handling different without it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,671 Posts
Seems to be more responsive to steering wheel and/or throttle without it. This is only in hard driving, the kind that might annoy the spouse or law enforcement. My Mountaineer is upgraded with massive front and rear bars. IIRC, the rear one is 1 1/8". The original was maybe half that.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,730 Posts
If the end-link holes are spaced the same on your suspension as the stock 68, get a 1" 68 Mustang bar. Don't get the bigger bar you suggest, it'll be too harsh for the street. "Bigger is better" is NOT true in this case.
I have no idea where people get this from...not from actual experience that is for sure.....demonstarted many times and many real articles written back in the days when journalist were real (not ad marketeers), Guldstrand & a competitor demonstrated this was a non-issue...if the suspension system was oem or close to it, an oversize bar would have no effect on the ride quality- a sway bar does not limit suspension travel, affect rebound or anything else, it limits body roll/weight transfer....nothing more, nothing less.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,730 Posts
Rear sway bars will cause oversteer and are a waste of money on these cars.
It all depends on the type, style & design (adjustible or not)....the early designs limited the body flex so much that it would in effect cause wheel bump and on track conditions, induce wheel lift when engaging an uneven surface.....but, depending on the specific suspension spec and sway bar specs (including the front), it may very well be appropriate & very effective IF the installer is AWARE & UNDERSTANDS these dynamics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
652 Posts
My '66 coupe was rebuilt with stock suspension parts. No rollers, 1" drops, fancy shocks etc. In driving this car, it felt "soft" and slightly wandering. Mechanic friend helped to install a rear sway bar, the one VM sells. Man, what a difference!. This car drives as if on rails, straight and true. Yes, it corners great. That is my experience, you may not like them, I do!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,671 Posts
I have no idea where people get this from...not from actual experience that is for sure.....demonstarted many times and many real articles written back in the days when journalist were real (not ad marketeers), Guldstrand & a competitor demonstrated this was a non-issue...if the suspension system was oem or close to it, an oversize bar would have no effect on the ride quality- a sway bar does not limit suspension travel, affect rebound or anything else, it limits body roll/weight transfer....nothing more, nothing less.
You must live in the far-off "Land of Smooth Pavement". Here in real-world Pennsylvania, when you hit a pothole with a front wheel on a Mustang with a 1 1/4" front sway bar, the resistance of that bar to popping in and out of that pothole will shake you out from under your hair. Don't tell me, I've done it.

I used to live in Florida, which hasn't seen frost heave since wooly mammoths roamed the earth, and a 1 1/4" bar would be no problem, as you say.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,896 Posts
Discussion Starter #58 (Edited)
My '66 coupe was rebuilt with stock suspension parts. No rollers, 1" drops, fancy shocks etc. In driving this car, it felt "soft" and slightly wandering. Mechanic friend helped to install a rear sway bar, the one VM sells. Man, what a difference!. This car drives as if on rails, straight and true. Yes, it corners great. That is my experience, you may not like them, I do!
Interesting. I'm going to install a front bar for sure and drive it. Depending on the $$ of that VM(btw, is that Virginia Mustangs??) one you have, I may install it after and see if we like it--worst case I take it off and sell it at 50% of new.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,896 Posts
Discussion Starter #59
If it is possible to get one from Heidt's that's where I would go 1st- if they do not then I would get the recommendation where they have theirs made, and push for the hollw tube type- again, a little more $ but a beautifull a car as what you have, its really pennies for what the return will be
Thanks, I know they make one for the kit but it is only 7/8" and solid.I'll speak with their tech department.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,222 Posts
I have experience with the 1 1/8 bar and it's not terrible on the ride quality. A lot of it has to do with how tall a sidewall you have on your wheels to soak up the impact. Vintage mustangs weren't designed to run low profile tires and relied a little on the cushioning of a taller side walled tire.
 
41 - 60 of 96 Posts
Top